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Labour's Woes Deepen

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Ethics' started by Markham, Aug 5, 2016.

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  1. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    1982 was the last time the governing party gained a seat in a by election whilst this Tory win was the best result for a government in a by election since 1966. I'm told that Copeland also represents the worst electoral disaster for the Labour Party for some seventy years.

    The Tories didn't do too badly in Stoke where they did not campaign with any vigour unlike in Copeland. Their Stoke candidate, the 25 year-old no-hoper Jack Brereton, got just 79 votes fewer than Ukip's Nuttall. The Tory Copeland candidate - now MP - received nearly twice as many votes as Gareth Snell who retained Labour's seat in Stoke.

    Neither Labour nor Ukip have anything to celebrate from these results but the Tories can be secure in the knowledge that the results aren't so dire for Labour that Corbyn resigns or is replaced as leader (the Tories didn't want to win both seats, just Copeland, hence the lack of effort in Stoke). Given Nuttall's passing acquaintance with the truth, he truly did not deserve to get as many votes as he did.

    Here's one reason why Labour lost Copeland, which includes the nuclear reprocessing facility at Sellafield:


    But his frontbench pal, Emily Thornberry (aka Lady Nugee) claims Corbyn's opposition to nuclear power is 'fake news':


    So now Stoke, a city that voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU, is represented by a misogynist arch-remainer from the Blair-Mandelson school of denial politics who hasn't a nice word to say about his leader; I think they've been short-changed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2017
  2. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Well the result in Copeland doesn't seem to have phased good old JC, just been watching him on Sky News and he's as upbeat as ever, its going to take a lot for him to take the hint.

    He has ruined the Labour party single handed.
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  3. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    There might be something in that, but not a lot, surely?

    Mark - all they had to do was step down the road to a polling station and put a cross on a bit of paper. I know it was windy but as far as I know all the parties offer a lift to the polling station to infirm voters.

    I do take the point made by a BBC pundit this morning that the parallel with 1982 should not be pursued too far because Corbyn, unlike Foot, is perfectly safe as Leader of the Labour Party. He will not be challenged, because a challenge will fail.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  4. Drunken Max
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    Drunken Max Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I was a Cameron tory but its lurch to the right has left me abandoned in the middle somewhat. I think there are a few of us "undecided". Brexit is a big thing but not the only thing. The tories won because they campaigned on fear of what a Labour government would do to the Nuclear industry which is a massive part of the cumbrian economy in that region. Labour won Stoke because of Nuttall's incompetence and Walter Mitty existence. If he had kept a clean sheet he could have won. Not a good thing in my opinion being a Remainer.

    The Tories have to hope that JC does not go because if someone like Chuka or his ilk come in then its game on. The last thing Theresa Maybe needs is someone with a personality against her. Shes a manager, not a leader I am afraid. Totally out of her depth but unfortunately, at the moment, the best we seem to have. I do wish her luck, until someone better turns up anyway.
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  5. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I agree that Nuttall and UKIP only have themselves to blame, no doubt about that in my mind, I do disagree though that Chuka would make any impact if he was to lead the Labour party. JC has done the damage now and I do not see anyone in the Labour party who can turn that around anywhere in the foreseeable future.

    Theresa May will be untouchable for some time especially given that the Tories seem to have united over Brexit.
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  6. Aromulus
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    Aromulus The Don Staff Member

    I reckon it was the Millipede that did it originally, by changing the voting rules for the leadership.....
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  7. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    Can I go back further? I think the rot began when the second Viscount Stansgate first changed the rules. :oops::confused:
  8. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    You're probably right there Dom, the Labour party has a leader they love, unfortunately your average Labour voter doesn't share their view.

    They just cannot get rid of him as we have seen, the support he has within his own party is so strong that he is not inclined to fall on his sword which would be the gallant thing to do.
  9. Aromulus
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    Aromulus The Don Staff Member

    Whicever way one looks at it, the fact does not change that labour is failing on most fronts, but mainly due to an uneffective leadership and a general lack of direction
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  10. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    I think all the established parties would be better served if the only people who elected their leaders were their sitting MPs. After all, it is the confidence of the party in Parliament that matters.

    (This would have an odd effect on UKIP, I admit, but Douglas Carswell is the only MP so although he is a pukka sahib and would hate voting for himself, he would have to! ;))

    (For the avoidance of doubt I am a card carrying Lib Dem Remainer, but I might have been tempted into voting Tory if Ken Clarke had won the election that Cameron won)
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  11. Aromulus
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    Aromulus The Don Staff Member

    Ken Clarke should be politically neutered.
    Same as Diane Abbot, Harman, Blair, Cleggie....
    Nothing to do with Brexit.
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  12. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    But he was generally thought-of as a moderate until the early 1980s.
  13. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Corbynista Cat Smith telling ITV what an "incredible achievement" losing Copeland was for Labour:
  14. Drunken Max
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    Drunken Max Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    That is the sort of attitude which would prevent me engaging in a political discussion with someone. In your world I assume Parliament would be dominated by Right Whingers?
  15. Aromulus
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    Aromulus The Don Staff Member

    Not at all........

    I have an open attitude to political debate, I do have some preferences, but I am not vociferous as some, and always willing to learn and modify if there is common sense.
    I may be old fashioned in some aspects, but I tend to respect people's choices, as long as I am respected myself............
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  16. Drunken Max
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    Drunken Max Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Apologies for the terseness. Youa re absolutely correct.
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  17. Mattecube
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    Mattecube face the sunshine so shadows fall behind you Trusted Member

    David Miliband seems to be getting his voice again.
  18. Markham
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    Markham Guest

  19. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Poor old JC, he has nothing going for him.
  20. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    Excellent find Mark and so true and catchy have reposted for fans that may not have seen elsewere:)

    Your monolog threads are a wonderfull resouce
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