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Planet of the Vapes: why is there a war on e-cigarettes?

Discussion in 'General Chit Chat' started by Bootsonground, Jan 15, 2019.

  1. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine
  2. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest


    Ive posted quite a lot of reasonably interesting and informative stuff...Which bit specifically was nonsense?
  3. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest

    Are you saying that they change and become more dangerous for human consumption via vaping or is that just more conjecture on your part?
    Can you show us some study,tests and conclusive results to back up your claim?
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2019
  4. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest

    It constitutes approximately 0.6–3.0% of the dry weight of tobacco.[9] Usually consistent concentrations of nicotine varying from 2–7 µg/kg (20–70 millionths of a percent wet weight) are found in the edible family Solanaceae, such as potatoes, tomatoes, and eggplant.
    ".[10] Some research indicates that the contribution of nicotine obtained from food is substantial in comparison to inhalation of second-hand smoke"
    An average cigarette yields about 2 mg of absorbed nicotine, while high amounts (30–60 mg) can be harmful.
    The health effects of long-term nicotine use are unknown.[25] The general medical position is that nicotine itself poses few health risks, except among certain vulnerable groups.
    [27] Nicotine use as a tool for quitting smoking has a good safety history.
    Nicotine use in the form of nicotine replacement products poses less of a cancer risk than smoking.[
  5. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Conjecture, but that is irrelevant, the smell is sickening and I am being forced to consume some second hand nicotine over and above the amounts I might get from food.

    I spent ten years addicted to nicotine, I know exactly what I escaped from 33 years ago and I don't want to get exposed to it now.

    As for chemical compounds and heat, that is a fundamental of heat mixed with any chemical.

    As for e-cigs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cigarette

    [QUOTE ]
    The e-liquid has a low level of toxicity, but contamination with various chemicals has been found.[151] The majority of toxic chemicals found in tobacco smoke are absent in e-cigarette vapor.[25][26] Those which are present are mostly below 1% of the corresponding levels in tobacco smoke, and far below safety limits for occupational exposure.[27][152] Metal parts of e-cigarettes in contact with the e-liquid can contaminate it with metals.[26] Normal usage of e-cigarettes generates very low levels of formaldehyde.[153] Later-generation e-cigarettes can generate high levels of formaldehyde, but only when they thermally degrade under conditions that bear very little resemblance to how the devices are actually used.[65][154][153][13] Users detect the "dry puff" and avoid it, and the report concluded that "There is no indication that EC users are exposed to dangerous levels of aldehydes."[13] E-cigarette users who use e-cigarettes that contain nicotine are exposed to its potentially harmful effects.[24] Nicotine is associated with cardiovascular disease, potential birth defects, and poisoning.[155] In vitro studies of nicotine have associated it with cancer, but carcinogenicity has not been demonstrated in vivo.[155] There is inadequate research to demonstrate that nicotine is associated with cancer in humans.[156] The risk is probably low from the inhalation of propylene glycol and glycerin.[29] No information is available on the long-term effects of the inhalation of flavors.[151] Most of the cardiovascular effects of ECs are consistent with those of nicotine. According to a 2017 review, it is possible that ECs may have adverse cardiovascular effects on users, especially those who already have cardiovascular disease. However, this review also concluded that "the risk is thought to be less than that of cigarette smoking based on qualitative and quantitative comparisons of EC aerosol versus cigarette smoke constituents."[157]

    E-cigarettes create vapor that consists of ultrafine particles, with the majority of particles in the ultrafine range.[23] The vapor has been found to contain flavors, propylene glycol, glycerin, nicotine, tiny amounts of toxicants, carcinogens, heavy metals, and metal nanoparticles, and other harmful chemicals.[23][29][158] Exactly what comprises the vapor varies in composition and concentration across and within manufacturers.[24] There is a concern that some of the mainstream vapor exhaled by e-cigarette users can be inhaled by bystanders, particularly indoors.[33] E-cigarette use by a parent might lead to inadvertent health risks to offspring.[148] A 2014 review recommended that e-cigarettes should be regulated for consumer safety.[136] There is limited information available on the environmental issues around production, use, and disposal of e-cigarettes that use cartridges.[159]

    [/QUOTE]
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  6. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    chemistry lesson aside--i think peep walking round with clouds of smoke / steam whatever pouring out of their heads look ridiculous.

    and as for driving while vaping--come on...must seriously affect visibility.
  7. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    And attention to the road.
  8. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest

    Did you not you live in Manila once?

    The pollution there is approximately 80% higher than the safe levels indicated by world health org and your worried about minuscule to zero risks of second hand nicotine inhalation?

    IMO,common sense will prevail as vaping is not against the law in the UK yet..
    I also believe that it`s up to the private landlord in establishments like pubs etc whether or not vaping is allowed inside.
    I say in a fair and free country,consumers should have the right in which establishments they choose to frequent and which company they choose to keep.
    Vote with your feet and your money and allow others to do the same.
    Everything will be just fine and dandy.
    The end.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    the smoking ban inside british pubs has had a dramatic effect on the boozeteria trade. not many pubs left in my town .
  10. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest


    It was a very obvious outcome..
    Very sad loss to an important part of British social culture caused by the nanny state and curtain twitchin do gooders.
    Hopfully as more smokers turn to e-cigs and vape mods,the great British boozer will make a come back.
  11. Anon04576
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    Anon04576 Well-Known Member

    Oh I dunno, I’m quite glad that the “nanny” state stepped in and reduced my carcinogenic intake.

    I wonder why smokers were the death knell of the boozer yet nightclubs survived.
  12. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    Because folk fueled up prior to the night club and this affected "feeder pubs" who relied on that trade to pay for their other opening hours

    And after a a drunken dance folk exit to the pavement for a fag ,in one club night (600 capacity) just after the ban we had 1730 entry and exits a huge amount of movement to manage
  13. Anon04576
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    Anon04576 Well-Known Member

    I get what your saying about alcohol preloading but I’d of thought that’s because of alcohol price increases rather than anything to do with smoking.

    The good thing for nightclubbers is that when they smell their clothes the morning after/later in the day they won’t be reeking of smoke.
  14. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest


    Cocaine?

    People that drink,smoke more...No smokers,less demand,price goes up.
    Price goes up,punters say sod it and buy cheap booze from supermarket and take it home.
    Pubs close.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Read it again the smell is sickening that is my primary objection.

    In your version of a free country the free choice you describe would result in the total voluntary exclusion of everyone who didn't like second hand smoke from all establishments as was the case back in the late 20th century.

    I have voted with my feet and my money, I have only been in a UK pub twice since February 2017, that's two years, vaping was a factor although not a massive factor in that decision, the amount of money I was spending in the pub was a much larger factor.

    I've been in pubs in the Philippines during that time although only a few times at least the climate is such that you can eat and drink outside and avoid some of the smoke that is otherwise present in closed spaces.
  16. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Maybe you should consider moving to Davao where smoking is prohibited in all publicly-accessible enclosed spaces, outdoors within 50 metres of an entrance to a building and all motor vehicles. But I'm with you, I find the 'smoke'/fumes given off by electronic cigarettes to be particularly nauseating and I'm not afraid to let my feelings be known!
  17. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest


    Thats my point..There should be vaping pubs and non vaping pubs...See which sinks or swims in a democratic free market economy.
    As a businessman,I know which one I`ll put my money on...
    You?
  18. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    You might as well have smoking and non smoking pubs, the problem with this notion is that the people are not exclusively friendly with each other based upon their shared love of smoking or shared love of not smoking, they do frequent pubs usually because they have a shared desire to socialise over a drink and maybe some food with their friends.

    A non vaping pub would attract some vapers who were willing to forego their habit and a smoking pub would attract some non smokers who were willing to tolerate the pollution.

    You would be betting your money that more non smokers would be willing to tolerate smoking than otherwise for the smoking or vaping pub, the reality is that this would not be the primary competitive feature between pubs and both would likely succeed or fail for other reasons.

    15% of the UK population smoke, 85% don't, the current solution for smokers it to take their smoke outside and it works pretty well, it may even be helping some of the smokers to eventually quit.

    I lost a good friend 10 years ago he was 49 and had smoked all his adult life, pneumonia finished him off, the year before he died he had caught a cold that he felt nearly killed him but he didn't stop smoking, he got one more year.

    Vaping may help some people stop and that's a good thing but there is still no real excuse for doing it in enclosed public spaces, in my opinion.
  19. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    I'm fine with Manila, I know the risks the atmosphere reeks and is dangerous but I like the place, likewise I accept the fact that people smoke in pubs clubs and restaurants over there that's their rules at this point in time and they do have a lot of smokers, however no one gets to smoke in our house.
  20. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest

    Very few people that want their nicotine hit will care less where their non smoking or ex smoking chums drink..
    They will go to the vapers arms where it is far more fun and relaxed.
    These establishments should have a very bold warning on the front door..

    Welcome to the vapers arms
    Drink and vape here at your own risk
    .
    Whinging and whining about vapour will NOT be tolerated.
    Any complainants will be asked to leave.
    NO SMOKING ALLOWED.


    Non smoking and non vaping pubs will die in a heart beat and will be taken over by old school land lords.
    3 Million vapers and E-cig (and quickly increasing) users in 2018 can`t be wrong.

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