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What happens to our spouses when we die

Discussion in 'Life in the Philippines' started by CatchFriday, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. CatchFriday
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    CatchFriday British Expat living in Alicante, Spain

    My wife mentioned that when her late husband died, the money her American husband received monthly from his pension stopped, and she did not receive any further money. Her late husband owned a business in the US. It would have been very useful if he had left a will stating that he left all his worldly goods to his wife. (Even though this was obvious).

    A Filipina friend aged 45 - her husband aged 76 died last August in the Philippines, his pensions dried up. He had a daughter with his former spouse in the Netherlands and his wife lost contact with her.

    What rights has the wife, now that her husband is dead.

    How do we make provisions for our wives?
  2. Druk1
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    Druk1 Well-Known Member

    Draw up a will.
  3. Br28016
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    Br28016 Active Member Trusted Member

    The key issue with pensions is how they are set up and that if not a company scheme then depends on the person who owns pension. Options in the past have been to take a higher pension but no provision for partner. In which case the pension dies with the husband.

    With most other schemes there will be a requirement to claim against the pension and this may have been the problem. Also survivor pensions nornmally require confirmation that survivor is still living a regular basis and has not set up home with someone new or got married which ccan terminate the survivor pension.

    Examples you quoted would need tonundrstand who is pension scheme and contact them to understand entitlements as may only require a claim to get something.

    Need to understand your pension scheme and make sure your wife understands What to do to claim a survivor pension.

    Making a will is also solid advice.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. CatchFriday
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    CatchFriday British Expat living in Alicante, Spain

    What filipino scheme is available to offer that provision?
  5. Br28016
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    Br28016 Active Member Trusted Member

    SSS pension scheme was the only one I came across. Have to be earning at some point to start contributions and after that can do voluntary contributions if stop earning. Never worked out if I thought the payout was decent or not.

    Not sure if there is equivalent of UK personal pension there although UK personal pensions are only really attractive from point of view that get tax relief to post it.

    Guess SSS and savings are only real option there. Think the children historically have been the pension scheme being brought up expect that have to support parents when get older.
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  6. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    They keep living :)

    Sorry for being flippant but life goes on.

    The question is really about applicable law and where the assets are held, assets in the USA then I would bet USA law applies, the Will would likely have to be in the care of a lawyer in the USA.

    This is actually a very important question, even in situ in the UK if you make a Will you still have to be careful as to how it is worded, Wills can be contested and you have no guarantee that what you wanted will actually happen.

    If you die intestate then there is a bloody good chance that the main benefactor will be the British Government unless you have some family that can deal with your death on your behalf, in todays world your children might not have proof that you are the parent, marriages don't always happen and your name might not be on your child's birth certificate and without that how do you apply to be executor when a parent dies intestate.

    In that situation it's the state that reaps the rewards.

    Private pensions in the UK are complex and the outcome will depend on whether an annuity has been purchased, if an annuity has been purchased then the rules that Br28016 is referring to will apply, if the pension is a drawdown scheme they don't and the remaining pot can be included in your estate and willed to whoever you want.

    There are restrictions, under Scots law you cannot disinherit a child, and under English law you could have a hard time disinheriting a child (of any age), the best solution would be to set up a trust and write your will to place your assets into that trust and name the surviving spouse as the beneficiary of the trust, otherwise there are going to be issues dealing with the cross border transfer of the assets.

    And I don't trust lawyers, so how do you find a good one here in the UK that will actually carry out the instructions in your will and not find a way to divert the monies into their own pockets.

    In the simple case where you have assets in the Philippines a wife could have Philippine law applied and would likely inherit whatever you had there, it's the international assets that are the problem, and it's going to be a job and a half getting a will in the UK executed, even in the drawdown case the pension companies will not release money via an international payment that money will have to be transferred out via laywers.

    I've still not got a full plan in place for my children.
    • Informative Informative x 2
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  7. Druk1
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    Druk1 Well-Known Member

    That's it,when we are dust we are dust,pinoy tradition relies on the children looking after the oldies.
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  8. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Further to my earlier post.

    When a person dies before retirement and the pension(s) funds are still invested the situation is slightly different, pension schemes almost always have death benefits, death benefits are paid out at the discretion of the trustees of the pension scheme, but they will be guided by your nominations if you have made any.

    Retirement is defined here as the crystallisation of the funds not your state pension age, it's when you first chose to access your funds and is affected by choices such as drawdown as crystallised funds are treated differently from uncrystallised funds.

    It is important to make a nomination if the trustees have to deal with your nominee then the funds are outside your estate for the purposes of inheritance tax however other tax rules still apply.

    The big issue is that even with a nomination pension funds will not normally do cross border pay-outs most funds operate within a single jurisdiction and will settle up inside a single country, before last Friday that would probably have included any EU state but who knows now.

    And of course in the case of a bereaved Filipino spouse they may not have the available resources to even be able to get in touch with the pension fund or even have the ability to physically visit the UK to deal with everything if not previously naturalised in the UK.

    Alternatives would be for a UK citizen to move their pensions to a qualifying QROPS scheme prior to retirement (or death), that basically moves the assets to a local private pension scheme but the process is expensive and very risky, if the pensions are moved this way then local inheritance law will apply.
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  9. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    That's what's driven the population growth at least it is one of many factors, and I think that is slowly changing now to a more western view.
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  10. Druk1
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    Druk1 Well-Known Member

    Change is slow in the PI as you said,i have learnt that in 30 years,the uneducated are still knocking kids out like its going out of fashion,the educated are the ones who realise how much children cost to keep and are realising education keeps you in a comfortable retirement rather than half a dozen unschooled kids.
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  11. John Surrey
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    John Surrey Well-Known Member

    Might be a good idea to try and sort something out...

    Anyone know what the position is regarding making a Will - I'm in the Philippines but I have a property and bank account in the UK + one bank account and a property here (just the building is mine)...?
  12. Jim
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    Jim Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    We checked if the wife was due any state pension from the DWP site. She has worked in the UK for 12 years but has been going to the Fils for 2 to 3 months every other year so would not have full year NI contributions.
    I was surprise that they have given her 10 years, minimum contributions. When I checked there was only 7 full years. I'm sure they have made a mistake.

    Also wife has a SSS pension setup, don't know what she will get, also a PAG IBIG fund she can draw that anytime.
  13. Jim
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    Jim Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Not made a will so be interested to know too. We have a large house and guest house in my wifes name so that won't be a problem in the Philippines.

    Also have a UK bank account. Would I need a seperate Will in the UK, Or would the bank have some sort of Will?
  14. Mattecube
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    Mattecube face the sunshine so shadows fall behind you Trusted Member

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  15. Maharg
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    Maharg Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    If you put everything in a joint account then it will all automatically go to the other account holder regsrdless of whether or not you have a will.
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  16. Mattecube
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    Mattecube face the sunshine so shadows fall behind you Trusted Member

    not sure you could put a non resident of the UK, on a UK bank account
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  17. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member


    when my late father was alive, he had me appointed as his attorney, and had me added to his bank accounts. he was living in a care home then. i was the sole beneficiary of his estate, and i knew its value to the penny. i was a bit concerned as it was very close to the threshold for estate duty. also--i wasnt sure how i would stand as in theory i could access half his money.

    after he died--i had our solicitor handle his affairs, and i found out--much to my surprise--that half his cash--being as it was held in what were now joint accounts--was now already legally mine and no longer part of his estate, so it was now well below the death duty threshold. its now something i need to address.
  18. Maharg
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    Maharg Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I think, if we'd been more savvy, me and my mum would have done that.
  19. Jim
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    Jim Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    wife's got dual nationality and a UK bank account, same bank as me.
  20. Jim
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    Jim Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Good idea, never thought about that. Wife's got British nationality and Philippines, so should be no problems. also wife's got the same bank as me.
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