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Animal Rebellion activists to blockade UK's biggest meat market

Discussion in 'General Chit Chat' started by KeithAngel, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. cojo1000
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    cojo1000 Member

    Except cico is becoming outmoded. Particularly where people are leading sedentary lives. “You cannot outrun a bad diet.”

    Try Zoe Harcombe and also Tim Noakes

    http://www.zoeharcombe.com/media/

    Here she talks about the energy balance:



    You will enjoy that second video @oss She tackles the law of thermodynamics and diet head on.

    As the lady says. Our thinking on diet is having to change. It is changing. The NHS is even changing but it’s like an oil tanker changing course, very slowly. This applies to my local GP practices where I am involved in making those changes. Half the GPs there are with and half are not. Half the nursing staff are and half not. It’s the same right across the country. Depends on your GP as to what story they tell. One GP I know had a gastric bypass. He didn’t need to. If only he knew.

    I don’t look at calories at all. I eat till I am full.

    I actually like Skyr. But prefer to eat fat so that I have some energy. I need energy for the 25 to 30k lifts I am doing throughout the day.

    This is enlightening:

    https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb-performance

    So is this:

    https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/49/15/967.citation-tools


    Good news about your brother in law by the way.

    I have dropped out of obesity levels now. Diabetes has been reversed.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  2. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    I'll watch it later, but you can't beat the second the law of thermodynamics, if she says you can she's wrong ;) :)
  3. cojo1000
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    cojo1000 Member

    She is saying it isnt as straight forward as CICO.
  4. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Calories in Calories out I'm guessing?

    Yes it's not that simple as what you eat alters your appetite and unless you are utterly rigid counting calories you won't know exactly what's going in.

    As for what's going out, one example is that if you eat too little and make yourself feel hungry then you might compensate by sleeping more which reduces the out side of the equation, I do that and I know how I compensate that's one reason why I plateau when trying to get rid of weight. It is also hard to accurately estimate what is going out unless you keep an accurate diary of activity.

    The food we eat directly generates the heat that keeps our bodies in the very narrow temperature range that is required for life, there is no escaping that, also the efficiency of processing the food we eat is not likely to vary hugely, if it did we would be excreting fat and or carbs in our waste (the four letter stuff).

    We are machines a closed chemical system that generates heat, motion and waste tipping the equilibrium one way or another through activity or food or lack of either will cause an increase or decrease in weight, it's the interaction between what we eat, feelings of hunger and the amount of activity we engage in that ultimately determines whether we lose of gain weight.
  5. cojo1000
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    cojo1000 Member

    Yes, she points out that with CICO the focus is on weight and not energy. She says there are 7 systems in the body that are involved in the process and therefore the simplistic calories in calories out doesn’t work like it is claimed to do. It is well worth a full view to get the best out of it. She is addressing an audience of General Practioners at a Public Health Collaboration Conference last year.

    Right at the beginning she points out that the human body doesn’t work like a steam engine.
  6. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    I will watch it later.

    If she were addressing an audience of Physicists she would be having a hard time ;) :D

    Wullie Thomson might well be spinning in his grave :D
    • Funny Funny x 1
  7. cojo1000
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    cojo1000 Member

    Also try Jason Fung.



    He has a good book called the Obesity Code. He says that:

    “Everything you believe about how to lose weight is wrong. Weight gain and obesity are driven by hormones—in everyone—and only by understanding the effects of insulin and insulin resistance can we achieve lasting weight loss.”



    This is Dr Zoe Harcombes last slide in that video:

    40347B5C-2AFC-4805-9939-4E88D39C884B.jpeg
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  8. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Yes weight is about fat stored and un-stored, exactly, but fat stores are a battery and fat is part of the energy equation, the statement that there is no law that says CI = CO or EI =EO is wrong, E=mc2 Energy and mass are the same thing, the laws say everything about weight because mass, weight and energy in this context are the same thing, fat and sugars and chemical energy are the same thing.

    A human body of any particular size has to generate a certain amount of thermal energy commensurate with the activity of that body in order to live, if it doesn't generate enough it gets cold and dies.

    If it runs out of fat stores and has no immediate inputs of sugar it dies, all of this is simply about interpretation of how the body adjusts to certain types of foods and yes the insulin stuff is all correct and yes high protein diets will result in weight loss but weight loss will only happen if the total energy input is overall on average less than the total energy expenditure, the problem with people and animals is the feedback loops that change our behaviour in various circumstances

    People who starve to death end up metabolising their own cells they lose muscle because it's easier to break that down than it is to shift the fat and break it down, so yes it is all about how fat is stored and un-stored.

    And a major issue for obese people is that they have lost muscle mass through many cycles of the wrong kind of diet, that's what makes it harder and harder for them to lose weight, which is also why high protein diets help although regaining muscle also helps enormously.
  9. cojo1000
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    cojo1000 Member

    Probably best to give the whole recording a shot. In its basic form the thermodynamic laws are sound enough. But the model is too simplistic to apply to weight loss in the form of calories in calories out. She gives reasoning behind her assertion.

    Here she is addressing parliament in a series of lectures alongside Tom Watson and Dr David Unwin and Dr Aseem Malhotra. There is some powerful stuff in all of the lectures. These guys are driving massive change within the NHS when it comes to the nations nutrition and health. Lookout for her comment on the Eatwell Plate.



    This link below explains why the laws of thermodynamics are irrelevant when it comes to weight loss:

    https://www.dietdoctor.com/first-law-thermodynamics-utterly-irrelevant

    “CICO adherents believe you take calories in, subtract calories out and whatever is left over is dumped into fat stores like a potato into a sack. So, they believe that fat stores are essentially unregulated. Every night, like a store manager closing its books, they imagine the body counts up calories in, calories out and deposits the rest into the fat ‘bank’. Of course, nothing is further from the truth.”

    It is a lot to do with insulin.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  10. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    I'm watching these out of sequence.

    Ok I agree with everything he says but he's talking about basal metabolic rate, what he's saying is that 30% reduction in food results in 30% reduction in metabolic rate and that's my point, there's a limit to how much your basal metabolic rate can drop, the energy required to heat and operate my 18 stone mass can't shift up and down by margins that large or I would be dead, so what's really happening when you reduce calorie intake is that you become less active thus reducing the required basal metabolism.

    This is all true, I know myself that if I try to get rid of weight too quickly, I shut down and sleep too much and then I end up eating at the wrong times of day and get into the fat store mode rather than the fat un-store mode.

    The statement that a calorie of A is not equal to a calorie of B is highly misleading, a calorie is 4.184 joules it is a measurement of energy a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, what they are trying to put across is that metabolising the energy in food is performed with varying efficiency the way your body processes a calorie of sugar is not the same as the way it will process a calorie of Kale, but if fully digested and processed they ultimately provide pretty close to the same amount of energy, but the sugar spike from sugar is likely to encourage storage of any spare fats that happen to be floating around at the same time.

    There is no way that anyone can imagine that they could eat say 3000 kcal of Fats and Protein in a day on average and get away with only burning 2500 kcal a day through simply existing and a little bit of exercise without gaining weight, on that kind of budget you would gain about a pound a week.

    On the other hand if you more or less burn 2500 kcal a day on average and you start to cut back your food intake drastically to say 1500 kcal a day, then unless you have superhuman willpower you are going to slow down and your daily requirement will drop to say 2000 kcal a day or less so instead of getting rid of 2 pounds a week you will be down to 1 pound a week and if you keep it up you eventually plateau for some of the reasons this chap expressing.

    If however you make a conscious effort to maintain or increase the amount of exercise you get and are less drastic on the food reduction you are likely to keep getting rid of weight for longer.

    The high Protein/Fat diet for diabetes will certainly work it is as you say about insulin control and the storing of fat but ultimately total consumption of energy matters as well, if this kind of diet helps you feel sated and full then yes it would be a good thing Carbohydrates can and do leave you feeling hungry, but personally I could not do away completely with carbohydrates unless I was told it was do or die :)
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  11. cojo1000
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    cojo1000 Member

    I know. I love fruit. Carbs are delicious. But so is protein and fat. I am not surprised that Filipinos prefer the fattiest cuts of the lechon. :D

    Well what works for T2 diabetics will work for the rest of the population. But the problem is largely do they want to (rest of the population that is). However, I will spare the long story but I know of a T2 lady who reversed her condition and on a voluntary footing runs a clinic once a month for both T2 diabetics who want to reverse their condition and those wanting to lose weight. The method is identical. In fact the two are linked such that obesity is a symptom of T2 diabetes. You may come across the term diabesity.

    On fibre, we don’t need 5 a day or 7 a day to get the fibre we need. Zoe Harcombe deals with that aswell in one of her lectures.
  12. Druk1
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    Druk1 Well-Known Member

  13. John Stevens
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    John Stevens Active Member

    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    The kids and I will be going out on a long walk tomorrow morning. (My wife works on Sunday).
    This is very important for our health.
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    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    My father walked everywhere, even though he had a licence from having driven during the war, everywhere we went he walked at full adult pace and my wee legs had to keep up it was torture :D

    I made a point of walking too and from church with the kids over Christmas we can walk there in about 7 minutes, the air quality is pretty poor though but it's a lot better than paying for a taxi to get too and from a church further away.

    Photo of the street I am behind Janna with James on the left.
    [​IMG]
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  16. Druk1
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    Druk1 Well-Known Member

    What sort of distance you walk?
  17. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    There is a lot of meandering with the kids in tow but we take about three hours.
    They never want to go out but at the end of the walk, they never want to go home :confused:
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  18. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    At least in the UK for most of the year, you can walk without sweating ;) - as long as it is not at breakneck speed :eek:
  19. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    James looks fairly tall, Oss.
  20. Druk1
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    Druk1 Well-Known Member

    I did 20 Km yesterday,10km on a treadmill then 10km outside on a track,did 10km today,its good to walk,i bet your children enjoy it :)
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