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General Election - June 8th

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Ethics' started by Maharg, Apr 18, 2017.

  1. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    1983? I agree they are similar in that the Tories were then and are now led by strong women** and the outcomes may be very similar in terms of majority. But the Labour Party was much stronger then and their backers the unions wielded much power. I suspect Corbyn will declare it a success if he tops a hundred seats. And I would hope that you achieve more than 23 seats!

    **Yes, Theresa May is strong but not in a handbag-swinging way.
  2. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    Corbyn is most decidedly not one of mine, Andrew! Yes I too had read that he made an on-the-hoof decision not to back a second referendum but the Labour Party might have different ideas. I wouldn't trust anything he or anyone else in that party says due to the constant Progress v Momentum battling.

    It might give you a few more votes but not enough to make a difference. Probably ;).
  4. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Why would a second referendum be of any benefit, unless it is an "Accept the negotiated deal" or "Leave with no deal" referendum.

    Why not get behind Theresa May and the Conservatives, let them have the strongest possible hand to negotiate the best deal for our country and the British people.

    Trying to stir things up and cripple her (our) negotiations does seem rather immature, especially at this stage of play.
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  5. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    Farage has decided he can do more for Brexit in Brussels than as a backbencher in Westminster so won't be standing for Parliament.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    "Which, being translated" as the Good Book saith, means "He knows he hasn't a hope of ever being elected as an MP, but theMEP's salary comes in handy when he has a wife and a mistress to support!"
    • Funny Funny x 2
  7. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    Because that wouldn't be the question asked. The Lib-Dems want an In-Out type question once the deal with Brussels is known. We can not negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world until after Brexit: the Lib-Dems know this and realise it would be several years before the benefits of Brexit are realised; such a referendum would therefore be weighted in their favour. Theresa May also knows this which is why she has ruled-out any further referendums.

    That's precisely why they won't "get behind Theresa May": they want the negotiations to fail, for Britain to be disadvantaged, in the hopes that voters will demand a referendum (or, better, a General Election) and Brexit can be tossed in the bin.
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  8. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    I'm not so sure: had he decided to stand in Clacton, he'd have won it. Easily. But then he'd be sitting on opposition benches as a backbencher and have very little say in the Brexit process. In Brussels, where he's the top man of a Parliamentary Group, he has more say and much more influence. And it seems that he has little faith in Paul Nuttall's ability: Farage has given him 6 weeks to produce tangible results.
  9. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I'm afraid poor old Andrew is getting a little carried away (dreaming) just because the Lib Dems will win a few more seats at the next election, they will be picking up some remoaner votes, these are people not interested in the Lib Dem policies by the way, just sad people who cannot get over the referendum result. The poor old Lib Dems do not care where their votes come from.

    The fact of the matter is, May will have a mandate and a larger majority in the house come June 9th and will be pushing forward with Brexit, if there is a referendum on the deal struck by Mrs May I will eat my hat :)

    Just let Andrew dream on for a while, he is obviously finding solace in the comic called "The New European."
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  10. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I'm a little disappointed but I'm sure we will be seeing more of him.
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  11. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    I just love the way in which you casually toss around the idea that "several years" of self induced recession are an acceptable price for your daydreams of "sovereignty" and "throwing the foreigners out" (whoops, sorry, May has already thrown that one away).

    I am damned if I will see you and Dave and the rest of you condemn my children to poverty and rule by the mega rich just so that a bunch of old farts can wave flags and think yourselves clever.

    You have already devalued my pension by 20%.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...leading-eu-uk-trade-deal-tariff-a7691271.html
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  12. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    All that waffle rather goes against your earlier claim...
    ... as well as being highly deluded and fanatical. "Old farts waving flags", what planet are you on?

    Far better for the future of our children and country if we regain independence, and consolidate our position, rather than becoming a minor part of an undemocratic German controlled EU superstate set up to benefit the mega wealthy.

    No idea about your pension, perhaps you need to hire a new financial advisor if your present one has screwed up.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
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  13. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    Calm down dear boy. Here, have a read of this, it will make you feel better:
    Feeling better now? You really need to come to terms with the fact that I, Dave, Tim and almost everyone else who voted to leave the European Union are not the swivel-eyed far-right extremist supporters of EDL you believe us to be. And there was no talk of "throwing the foreigners out" but much talk of taking control of our borders: they are not the same things at all. You really should take that beautiful wife of yours on a fact-finding trip around the EU and I would particularly recommend you visit Greece, Sicily and southern Italy and tiny Malta: countries that have borne the brunt of years of austerity directed and enforced by the German High Command. See for yourself the damage the one-size-fits-all Euro is causing to ordinary people, damage that could threaten to engulf Britain if your party gets its way.

    To adopt a well-known saying "For you, ze war is over" :). We've had the referendum and you chose to be on the losing side. Despite your party's Peers' best attempts to derail the Brexit Bill, it was passed by both Houses of Parliament and has received the Royal Assent. That's called "democracy". Theresa May has promised a "meaningful" vote in Parliament which the EU is apparently insisting will take place before a similar vote in the European Parliament. That makes our "meaningful" vote entirely meaningless because MEPs may vote down that deal. So we are leaving in any event and very we will very likely have a bilateral deal with the EU that is a mirror image of that it recently signed with Canada which allows for tariff-free trade in the Single Market but does not require freedom of movement. I hope and think you'd be happy with that.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
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  14. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    There are two women attempting to derail the election for different reasons - and contrary to what some might think, neither of them were christened "Theresa". One is Gina Miller who is using other people's money to direct voters to prevent a Tory victory by means of tactical voting. Her true purpose, exposed by Andrew "Brillo" Neil on TV last night, is to overturn the referendum result and, despite her abject protestations, for purely selfish reasons.

    The other is far more dangerous. Knowing that the Tories won't allow her to hold a referendum on Independence until after Brexit - by which time Scotland's economic situation could be too dire for Scots to contemplate such a drastic step - Sturgeon wants to install Jeremy Corbyn in Number Ten. The pay-off is agreement on fast-tracking the SNP's independence referendum. To add an air of respectability and make it appear less of a stitch-up as far as the electorate is concerned, she's including the Greens and Lib-Dems in her conspiracy. Sturgeon cares not that a Corbyn government would be a complete disaster because, as far as Sturgeon is concerned, Scotland will no longer be part of the UK and therefore unaffected. How wrong she will be. So there we have it: Sturgeon's Coalition of Chaos.

    [​IMG]
    If there's to be a referendum on Scottish independence, let's have it now, on 8th June, and as independence affects the whole UK, the electorates of Northern Ireland, Wales and England should also have a say. With a recommendation that Scotland be set free but required to have its own currency and pay 50% of policing the hard border between Scotland and England. Of course not being part of the Union, they'd not be part of the EU either. And the money we'd save on the Barnet Formula's block grant to Scotland could be used for other purposes, to improve health, education and housing in the rest of the UK.
  15. Maharg
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    Maharg Well-Known Member

    The thought of Jeremy Corbyn being in number 10 should scupper Labour completely. He can be as decent a bloke as he like but, unofortunately for him, he just does not have the image of a leader.

    I actually think Labout could have someone like Chuka Umunna in charge and, without changing a single policy, instantly become much more of a threat to the tories just because he looks and sounds the part and his name sounds a bit like "Barack Obama". Unfortunate, maybe, but that is the reality of modern politics.

    I worry about what the Tories could do with a clearer majority, but Theresa May looks and acts the part. Job done for them.

    The SNP's obsession with the Scottish referendum could actualy lose them seats. It will be interesting to see how they do, but becoming a one-issue party could lose them votes.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    [​IMG]
    I see that the number of Labour MPs who've decided they've had enough and are standing down has risen to 13 and that commentators are expecting that number to rise to 20 or more.

    I doubt anyone - other than John McDonnell and Corbyn himself - wants that particular poisoned chalice. I believe that a new centre-left party will emerge during the course of the next Parliament which will be inherently popular provided Blair plays no part in it whatsoever.

    The next Parliament will be all about Brexit and then approving trade deals; there may be very little time for bread-and-butter domestic politics.

    The SNP has fewer seats in Holyrood than it did previously and the SNP is only in power thanks to support by the Greens. Scottish Labour and Lib-Dems are both becoming more popular whilst the Scottish Conservatives, under Ruth Davidson, have experienced a surge in popularity in recent month. If Davidson were to stand for Westminster, she'd have a seat. The SNP can not claim any credit for the well-performing Scottish economy which is benefiting from the upturn of the UK economy as a whole but they are responsible for the worsening state of the NHS and education north of the border. I hope the SNP lose seats and especially that of the snivelling Angus Robertson, their leader in the Commons; a good replacement would be the former journalist and broadcaster, John Nicolson. Or Mhairi Black.

    Any particular reason for leaving-out Timmy Farron and the Lib-Dems from your round-up, Graham?
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  17. Maharg
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    Maharg Well-Known Member

    I forgot about him. Says it all really!

    Liberals may make some gains because of their stance on leaving the EU, and will probably claim that the result proves the British people don't want Brexit. It won't be many, but he'd be right to say that about a lot of them - including me! In fact, I may even vote Liberals myself as it stands, just to get my little protest vote in. It would be rather fun if Theresa's snap election came back to bite her due to the apathy of those who support her!

    I can't see it though.

    I'm very much a floating voter. I even voted Green at the last election as they were the only party to say anything about the immigration rules for spouses. I'm easily swayed :)
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  18. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
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  19. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    I have in fact seen this before. But do you - and does your party - really need reminding that 30% of those who voted for the Lib-Dems in GE2015 voted to leave the EU? Or does Nicola Sturgeon want her nose rubbed in the statistic that 36% of SNP voters also voted to leave the EU and therefore would presumably make-up the rump of those who would vote against Scottish independence?

    However, that survey does rather make a mockery of arch-Remainer claim that the number one issue was immigration when it clearly wasn't. And it shows that you (Remainers) got the Prime Minister you really wanted!! :D
  20. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    The "arch-Remainer claim that the number one issue was immigration" is what is known as a man of straw.

    You set it up and you shoot it down.

    I have been quite clear that the "number one issue" for the Leavers is the absurd notion of "sovereignty", of "Britain making laws for British people". This sounds perfectly plausible in the pub or across the tea table, but the truth is that as soon as you seek to export or to import goods and services, you automatically submit yourself to the laws of the places that you are trying to sell stuff to.

    You can either do this as part of a big block of nations who comprise a nice big unified market, in which case you negotiate from strength, or you do it on your own, in which case - you don't.

    Liam Fox - he of the expense claims scandal and then of the Adam Werritty corruption scandal, now back in the Government as the Minister for Brexit (you do have such lovely people in your camp!) has just spent a good deal of public money on a series of sales tours for him and his staff, in which he went as far as the Philippines and shook hands with that fine upstanding fellow, President Duterte, and came back with precisely...

    nothing.

    Nil.

    Nada

    He didn't sell one chocolate biscuit.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liam_Fox

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/liam-foxs-team-travelled-240000-10244605

    Meanwhile, half our trade is with the EU.

    We do more business with Ireland than we do with India and China combined.

    But don't worry, it will all be right on the night...

    ... or if it isn't, Farage will have collected his new passport and banked his salary and expenses.

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