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General Election - June 8th

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Ethics' started by Maharg, Apr 18, 2017.

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  1. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    I think the DUP would have abstained. There's little chance they would want to bring down the Government.
  2. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    I don't think there was any likelihood that the DUP would vote against but they might have abstained.
  3. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Unlike his predecessor, I don't think Farron was ever dishonest - as in deliberately lied.

    Each to their own.

    Not a good idea to attack people for their religious beliefs.
  4. Drunken Max
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    Drunken Max Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I repeated their belief, did I pass comment on it? Perhaps your own opinion is coming to the fore. Actually I do think its a stupid belief. Religion can have its place in society but not when it denies proven science. Around 10% of US Christians think dinosaurs raomed the earth at the same time as humans, probably the same people that chocolate milk comes from brown cows. Its ironic that you defend a group's religious beliefs when they call the pope the antichrist.

    As for Farron, he did deliberately lie when he said that homosexuality was not a sin in order to get votes from people who are care about such things. He resigned because he could not continue the lie.

    She's quite the looker mutti if you squint.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Drunken Max
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    Drunken Max Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    The point was that the government did not need the DUP, they did. To either vote with them or at least abstain. All it needed was an amendment they quite liked and the Queen's speech was dead. Say free abortions in the UK.
  6. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    As I said earlier, it's not a good idea to attack people for their religious beliefs.

    I disagree as does Peter Oborne:

    "Like many Christians, Mr Farron takes seriously Biblical injunctions against abortion and against homosexuality. It was these deeply held beliefs which brought him into conflict with members of his party, and which were ridiculed by some sections of the media during the election campaign.

    To be a political leader — especially of a progressive, liberal party in 2017 — and to live as a committed Christian, to hold faithfully to the Bible’s teaching, has felt impossible for me,’ he said in a heartfelt statement on Wednesday [14 June 2017].

    It is clear that Mr Farron suffered some emotional turmoil during the election campaign, avoiding straight answers when pressed — or, more correctly, harangued — on gay sex and abortion.

    But crucially, Mr Farron has always made clear that his views on such matters are entirely personal, and that he has never once sought to impose them on others; and I believe him.

    Parliamentary convention means that he could never have imposed such views even if he had wanted to, because issues such as homosexuality, abortion and divorce are viewed as matters of personal conscience rather than of party principle.

    But that is not good enough for Mr Farron’s critics.

    In the words of the comedian David Baddiel, Farron is ‘a fundamentalist Christian homophobe’. In other words, beneath contempt. A lower form of life. Worthless.

    Mr Farron felt his life had been made unbearable. ‘... I seem to be the subject of suspicion because of what I believe and who my faith is in,’ he said.

    In other words, he has been driven out of public life by political correctness."

    ....

    "In fact, Tim Farron’s only crime is to hold views shared by virtually all priests, bishops, archbishops, rabbis, imams and other religious leaders since the beginning of civilisation."
    Read more: here

    Certainly not my bowl of borscht but each to their own.
  7. Drunken Max
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    Drunken Max Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Peter Oborne is a right wing hack so not really someone whose opinion would add credibility to any argument for me, but each to their own. He also thinks the election was a success and all TV's fault. How it can be TVs fault if its a success I cannot imagine.

    I do not have issue with Farron's religious beliefs, it ihis right to hold them no matter how much I disagree with them. I dislike people blaming religion for their personal beliefs mind. Farron though said, prior to the election, that "I do not believe gay sex is a sin". He later recanted that. I actually feel sorry for him and it questions how much personal views matter in politics. Afterall, Theresa May does not believe Brexit is a good thing ( probably Boris either ).
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Tim Farron does not blame religion for his personal beliefs - what ever gave you that idea? You're implying that he tacitly acknowledges that his beliefs are wrong and that she shouldn't hold them. Why shouldn't he hold them? It seems that you're one of the very people Peter Oborne writes about in that above-referenced article - a liberal fascist who holds the view that LGBT rights are more important than anyone's religious beliefs. That's pushing political correctness to its extremes. It seems to me that Tim Farron found that he could no longer lead a party whose moral compass had descended to intolerance, bigotry and deception. Thank goodness there are people who still believe in Christian values.

    That's wishful thinking!
  9. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    Im sure Jesus would be supporting Jeremy

    I think thats your wishfull thinking
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Why would he when Jeremy doesn't exactly like Jews whose king was Jesus?
  11. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    Do the Jews know that?
  12. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest

    Fury as students ‘openly boast of voting TWICE’ for Corbyn’s Labour - rules review called

    THE government has signalled that it will review election rules after an MP claimed students are openly boasting about voting twice in the election.
    Amid concerns that Labour support was boosted by illegal double voting by students and abuse of postal voting, Leader of the House Andrea Leadsom told MPs there was a need to “investigate” abuse of the democratic process.

    Ms Leadsom was responding to a concern raised by Wellingborough Tory MP Peter Bone who said that boasts by Leftwing students of voting where they went to university and in their home constituencies had been posted online.

    He said: “It has been brought to my attention that people can be registered to vote in a general election in two places.I am registered in London and in my constituency.

    “However, a number of students are bragging on social media that they voted not only where they live, but where they go to university. That is an abuse, so could we have a statement from the Cabinet Office on that matter next week?”

    The issue was also raised by Shipley Tory MP Philip Davies, who was targeted by a Leftwing hate campaign during the election.

    He raised concerns that the postal vote system was not only allowing double voting but also meant that in some communities votes were being stolen off women as the head of the household made multiple votes.

    He said: “Not only has it helped people vote more than once in elections, but in certain parts of Bradford it has been known to be abused for a considerable time, and I might add that it has effectively deprived many women of the vote in those communities.

    “These are serious issues that many people are concerned about, so may we have a debate on the abuse of postal voting?”

    Responding to Mr Bone, Mrs Leadsom said: “We must get to the bottom of people deliberately voting twice, which I understand is illegal.

    "We need to investigate that and ensure that parliamentary democracy, for which this country has been famous—this is indeed the mother of all Parliaments—upholds the rights of one person and one vote.”

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...tion-2017-news-labour-students-vote-electoral


    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    It's a criminal offence so perpetrators should be punished.

    However, are these claims substantiated? Is there concrete evidence that people have voted twice? If so, how many? And did it affect the results? If it did, then the results can be contested.

    The danger here, though, is that this is a sensationalist story with little real evidence that will result in rule changes that prevent or dissuade people from voting at all.
  14. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    If students are boasting that they voted twice, then they should be taken at their word and those concerned must be traced, arrested and prosecuted. In future, the Electoral Roll needs to be centralised to prevent multiple registrations.

    Initially investigations of Labour gains, regardless of from whom, should be conducted and especially where the result was unexpected or very close. I suspect Kensington would be one such seat.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    The source of the story that Boots posted?

    The article itself says 'Tory MP Peter Bone who said that boasts by Leftwing students of voting where they went to university and in their home constituencies had been posted online', so far there seems to be a dearth of actual evidence.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Seemingly students are allowed to vote twice in local elections, both at home and at the place where they study.

    This is not allowed for a general election, though I have no idea what, if any, checks are in place to prevent this.

    The following change.org petition already has over 38,000 petitioners demanding an investigation into this and demanding that action is taken if large scale fraud is found.

    https://www.change.org/p/uk-electoral-commission-general-election-fraud-2017
  17. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    Oh, are we to conclude that this unquantifiable behaviour benefits just one party?
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  18. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    These allegations are, so far, unsubstantiated. It could be a few trolls making spurious claims to exaggerate their minimal impact on the election defeat suffered by Labour.

    The Tories want to change the rules so that voters must bring an id. That could discourage voters from poorer backgrounds.
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  19. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    Have we found a petition you like???

    This "fraud" is , so far, of unknown quantity.

    If people are boasting about voting numerous times, then they should be charged. Has anyone been charged yet?
  20. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I agree.​
    Have you signed the petition yet?​
    • Like Like x 1
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