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General Election - June 8th

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Ethics' started by Maharg, Apr 18, 2017.

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  1. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    The petition on change.org predates the matter being raised in the Commons by some three weeks and it would appear that Andrea Leadson's interest in the matter is as a result of the petition.
  2. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Given that the Lib Dems and Tories in coalition increased tuition fees, I don't think it is unreasonable to suppose that neither of those parties would have benefited from any voter fraud. Given Corbyn's rather late-in-the-day announcement that he would scrap tuition fees if he became Prime Minister, students had every self-interested reason to vote for him, didn't they!

    A very sound idea. The UK is one of the few western democracies where ID is not required. Your second sentence is very condescending and without foundation.

    "We" - ie you - didn't find and provide a link to the petition. Dave did, so the patronising sarcasm in your question is totally misplaced.

    Misplaced hyperbole - it's not "numerous" times but a maximum of twice. And there could be a problem: those identified from their social media posts and brought before the courts may well be able to argue succesfully that the CPS is breaching the Data Protection Act. This ploy has been used successfully against the Labour Party's Compliance Unit by hard left activists who'd been suspended for posting anti-Semitic and other hate messages.
  3. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Theresa May, May 2010, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8707355.stm

    So what do you propose that people can use for ID, not everyone has a passport and not everyone has a driving licence, not everyone has a bank account, so given that we don't have National ID cards, what are the less fortunate going to supply as acceptable id?
  4. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest


    What about a P45 or Benefit book?
  5. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    I was going to suggest a UB40 but I don't know if they still exist, but it wouldn't be photographic and without a photo I don't think an Id is credible.
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  6. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Dip the index finger in indelible blue ink after voting, it works in some parts of the world.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_ink

    More seriously though, the Government does need to determine whether there has been any abuse of the electoral system and take appropriate action. The same for Postal Voting.

    Perhaps students should only be allowed to register for voting in one place.
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  7. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    I think there's a good case for re-introducing ID cards for those who have neither a British Passport or Driver License. But it should not attempt to be the "all things to all interested parties" that the Blair government wanted the document to be. It should simply be issued by (say) the Passport Office as an Identity Card but should require the same proofs of entitlement as a Passport application. A cheaper and lower-tech alternative would be the issuance of Voter ID tied to a nationwide Electoral Roll.
  8. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    No, this one is motivated by politics rather than principles. He had to alter the description 3 days after setting it up.
  9. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Oh how very high-minded of you if that were true but I suspect that the real reason you don't support the petition because it is likely that only a (considerably) left of centre party is indirectly involved.

    To remove the word "Labour" ... o_O
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  10. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    So, you are essentially saying that electoral fraud is limited to students. How widespread do you think the fraud is? Has anyone been charged? Your first statement is, essentially, saying that it is not possible that a Conservative voter used the same tactics. Not even in a tit for tat? It's amazing that you seem to be able to account for every vote cast.

    My statement about dissuading people from voting is not without foundation. Poorer people are less likely to hold passports and driving licenses.

    Patronising sarcasm? I'm sure Dave can take it (after all, he badly misquoted me in another thread), for a cheap "funny" rating from you!

    I'll come back to the last paragraph later.
  11. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    More unfounded allegations. I notice this story is not really breaking ground in anything other than the Daily Express!

    Your second paragraph highlights why I said this petition is purely political. It's why I didn't sign the Brexit petition (set up by a leaver), nor the Trump petition. In fact, I rarely sign petitions. The last one I signed was about meningitis vaccinations.
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  12. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    What ever next Tories voting for Jeremy ,that worked out well ta for the £25 guys

    The only prosecutions recently for doing bad things at a General Election was um oh yes the Conservative and Unionist Party
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  13. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    OK, last paragraph is just you being pedantic. I could be equally pedantic and point out the etymology of the word "Numerous". But we are already in dumb territory here, and I see you've thrown in a load of strawmen to divert the argument.

    You accused me of being on the outrage bus a few days back, but I am grateful you left me a seat.
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  14. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    It is my opinion that a grand total of ZERO people voted twice. It is my opinion that a number of online trolls are claiming to have voted twice just to wind up the Tories.

    It is also my opinion that we are getting into conspiracy theory territory, especially with the spurious claim that the Data Protection Act will prevent any prosecutions of these students. If that is so, how come people have been jailed for posting inflammatory content on things like Facebook and Twitter?

    If people have broken the law, the Data Protection Act will not save them. After all, the DWP use Facebook postings as a tool to refuse people benefits

    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/n...ontact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Benefits

    If the postings are public, then they are in the public domain.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. Mattecube
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    Mattecube face the sunshine so shadows fall behind you Trusted Member

  16. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    "David Cameron has said opponents of fiscal discipline are "selfish" not "compassionate", as the debate within the Tories over austerity continues.

    The ex-prime minister, who introduced the public sector pay cap, said those who believed in "sound finances" were wrongly being painted as "uncaring".

    "The exact reverse is true," he said at an event in South Korea. "Giving up sound finances isn't being generous."

    Chancellor Philip Hammond has urged ministers to "hold their nerve"

    Course it helps if you dont need more money than you have to pay your bills
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  17. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    It will be long remembered, by firefighters and nurses, that just weeks after four major incidents in England we had MPs cheering that their wage rise would be capped again at 1%. This, at a time when inflation is at 3% because of the devaluation of the pound because of another crazy political manoevure.

  18. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Yes of course it is. No leftie would ever do such a thing as commit electoral fraud .... maybe you've conveniently forgotten about Lutfur Rahman.

    "Spurious claim" you say .... I suggest you read this. And do stop putting words in my mouth - I said that there could be a problem, not that there will be one.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2017
  19. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    Red Herring alert!

    It is you who is putting words in my mouth. Where did I say that a leftie is incapable of electoral fraud? What I am saying is that, in my opinion, this story is borne from little more than internet trolling. You know, I have spent the evening watching the BBC News, Sky News? I also spent the best part of an afternoon on the road listening to Radio 4. I've read the main stories in The Times, The FT, The Guardian. This electoral fraud did not feature - not even once. I even watched the ITV news bulletin!

    As for the Order-Order article. It's hardly an unbiased source. It's also devoid of facts. Let us deal with this straw man shall we? Then, perhaps, you will have the courtesy to address the valid points others have made,without crying foul.

    Which Labour members have complained to the Information Commissioner? Do they even know what the Data Protection Act is? Do you?

    Going back to the point, I think we both agree that anyone who has voted more than once should be charged and punished. So, why haven't charges been brought? People are, supposedly, openly admitting it. You think the problem is serious enough to have a number of seats (like Kensington) investigated.

    Labour increased their share of the vote here from 31.1% to 42.2%. They won the seat by 20 votes, overturning a Tory majority of 7,361.

    Do you know why? It's the richest constituency, but it is also one where the difference between the highest and lowest earners is most pronounced. It has the country's poorest and most deprived ward. The new MP was a councillor in the ward, apparently a very good councillor and one that people who previously didn't vote (turnout increased to 63.8 percent. In 2015 only 57% voted, in 2010 just 53.3% bothered) felt was worthwhile voting for.

    I wonder why the result has not been challenged in court?

    Your language indicates that you think there is a problem. That's fine, it's your opinion, just as my opinion is that they will not find any fraud.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  20. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    Dont Feed the Troll:)
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