Government facing Brexit defeat in Lords over EU nationals

I don't understand this, the old unelected old codgers in the Lords want to amend the Government bill and seek assurances that EU Nationals in the UK will be able to stay in the UK.

That's all well and good, but what assurances will British expats be getting?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39123604

Funny how a LibDem Peer described the House of Lords as the "London's best day care centre for the elderly", or words to that effect, for a BBC fly-on-the-wall documentary. Another complained at the loss of the Lords' TV lounge which had been converted into offices!

Lords Heseltine and Pannick - the QC who represented Gina Miller in her Brexit court cases - as well as a judge or two are behind this. I don't know about the others but Heseltine is (almost) a member of the Government who waited ten years before making his maiden speech and rarely turns up for debates or votes (but possibly signs-in to claim his +£300 per diem).

I was thinking they are just trying to flex their muscles just because they can.

The idea that the UK guarantees the rights of existing EU citizens in the UK without some sort of reciprocal agreement from the remaining EU countries just seems crazy to me.

Quite a number - including Heseltine and Kinnock - have made rather a lot of money out of the EU; their support is bought and paid for.

The problem with Heseltines' treachery is that around 50 or so Tory MPs have said that if Heseltine does what he says he will do, they too will rebel against the Government when it's returned to the Commons. In theory if not in practice, this means that the Government will be stuck with any and all amendments the Lords care to add to the Bill.

Word here is that Michel Barnier - the Britain-hating French politician who's the senior EU negotiator for Brexit - is believed to be insisting that British expats in the EU be chucked-out as part of Britain's punishment. However, in order to be able to do that, the EU would first
have to modify parts of the Schengen Treaty as well as its Free Movement laws since, right now, the only legal sanction that can be used against us is our loss of Permits. Unless the laws are changed, we can not be rounded-up, detained, asked to leave or deported.

Actually its in the UK best interest to do this. The potential issue of so many EU nationals has seen the number in work in the UK reduce for the first time and employers are struggling to find staff. They are again now having to look to the non EU countries. There is no lose lose scenario that is acceptable for the UK. The reason the EU has not reciprocated is that it takes all 27 to make that agreement so they will not bother to do that until after art 50 is implemented. The only thing delaying any agreement is the dithering UK government. Its nearly 9 months since the vote, children have been born in the time taken so far.

I say grant them residency and then move on. We cannot waste any of the two years discussing this when we know what we will agree to do. Its just grandstanding when we hold absolutely no cards.

Also, Barnier is an anglophile, not Brit hating. PLease reference any non breibart source that says he has said he will chuck brits out because he's a commissioner and has no power whatsoever to do so. Everything is upto the council of ministers

Well the Government has been defeated as anticipated by the old codgers, I hope the bill bounces back quickly from the Commons unchanged.

Old codgers eh

The amendment states: "Within three months of exercising the power under section 1(1), Ministers of the Crown must bring forward proposals to ensure that citizens of another EU or European Economic Area country and their family members, who are legally resident in the United Kingdom on the day on which this Act is passed, continue to be treated in the same way with regards to their EU derived-rights and, in the case of residency, their potential to acquire such rights in the future."

How re-assuring it is to be reminded that we have a Parliament that is more concerned about the rights of everyone other than British citizens. There will be deep disappointment among the 1.3 million ex-pats that we have been let-down by unelected law-makers.

Interesting to note that the Lords amendment has set a cut-off date of the day the Bill becomes law rather than the date when Mrs May triggers Article 50. I suspect that the EU will insist that any EU nationals who arrive between now and the day in March 2017 when Brexit takes effect will have the same rights to remain.

The only reason that companies are struggling to find staff is because of our outdated education system, a massive lack of foresight as far as apprenticeships, training , and in particular .... RE-TRAINING are concerned, coupled with the unwillingness of certain businesses to pay a proper living wage to their employees. This, in the case of agriculture, brought about by greedy supermarket chains competing with one another like a bunch of cowboy traders.

There is no shortage of young people (and older ones put on the scrap heap) able to replace imported labour, provided they are once again treated like valued human beings, not disposable trash.

As for the Lords 'amendment':

A bunch of geriatric parasites holding up the business of the elected representatives of the people... and in so doing , further screwing up the prospects for the British economy.

The same argument applies to absolutely every item up for negotiation which makes one wonder whether Brexit negotiations aren't a tremendous waste of time and effort as far as Britain is concerned. Cameron's so-called 'renegotiations' yielded nothing of any substance and, in any event, would have been countermanded by the European Parliament. Better we exit quickly and cleanly so that we are free sooner to negotiate deals with those countries who actually want to trade with the UK - such as the US, China, Japan, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and every other Commonwealth nation, rather than be hindered by a cartel of 27 diverse countries who will never agree a common position. Don't forget any deal that emerges has to pass 28 national parliaments (including our own), several provincial parliaments and assemblies and finally the EU parliament. It will never happen.

But you're not a British citizen living in the EU, are you? The reason we would hold no cards is because you and the House of Lords have just given them away!

That's what he claims but Nick Clegg tells a different story as do many Eurosceptic MPs and Britain's bankers have first hand experience of 'le cretin des Alpes'.

During the debate, Lord Tebbit was apparently booed by LibDem and Labour peers when he said "It seems to me that the first duty of this Parliament of the United Kingdom is to care for the interests of the citizens of this kingdom. If we are to be concerned about anybody's rights after Brexit, to live anywhere on this continent of Europe, it should be our concern for the rights of British people to live freely and peacefully in those other parts.". How charming. Time to deliver some barrels of gunpowder to the cellars beneath the Lords chamber.

I am a British citizen living in the EU actually.

The important task of clarifying the residency status and rights of British Nationals living in the EU, and EU nationals living in the UK will be one of the first priorities for the Government, once article 50 has been triggered.

Such agreements cannot be one sided, negotiation is needed.

The same, that's the point. May is using the status of EU Nationals in the UK as a bargaining chip. She should be using it to show that Britain has some good-will left (unlikely).

After all, she did once claim that the status of EU nationals living in the UK was not in question. The Lords have merely asked her to put it in writing. MAYbe she will u-turn again.

Its all a farce. Do we even have any negotiators yet? Or is it the 3 amigos?

Nonsense. A few hundred lords voted in favour of the amendment. Why "name and shame" a select few?

Goodwill goes a long way. We're not at war with these countries, all that finished in 1945 which may shock some of the journalists for the red-tops. Achtung baby!!!!

Oh dear.

You'll get nowhere posting common sense here mate. Many of us stopped trying months ago.

May repeatedly offered to guarantee the status of EU nationals living and working in the UK but it is a two-way street. I think your criticism would be better directed at those on the EU side who refuse to make a similar gesture; it is they who have made all British and European ex-pats pawns in their chess game.

Yes, drawn from the civil service as one would expect.