Help and Advice needed

Its an obvious scam in my view the clue is in the word "Feeding"

This was my official complaint to the Defensor del Pueblo (the Spanish Ombudsman - appointed by their foreign office general department, and who had been passed my hot potato by the Spanish Foreign Minister)

Dear Sir,

As you know, I have been trying to secure a visa for my wife to join me in Spain, exercising the rights of an EU Citizen according to 2004/38/EC and RD240/2007.

I have informed you of the text of an email sent to me by the Spanish consulate in Manila on the 4th of September 2015 in which they say:

“Because of your marriage is not recognized by the British Government, in case that we grant the visa to your wife, it will be just a short term visa and she will have to apply for her residence directly in Spain to the corresponding Spanish immigration authorities.”
From the text of this email, we can deduce the following;

• A short term visa is possible without having the marriage recognised
• A residential visa need not be applied for in the Philippines, but can be pursued separately once in Spain.
• Consular staff were aware that at the time of our application in accordance with this suggestion that the marriage would not be recognised, and that our intention would be to pursue residential status in Spain. If successful, my wife would not return at the end of the visa period.

And yet the reasons given for refusal were that the marriage is not recognised, and that they could not be sure that she would return at the end of the visa period. For the third time, despite us complying with all of the requirements, we were refused again.

To change a visa type, or insist on a residential visa application is in contravention of the Visa Code

Without our knowledge or permission, on the previous application (our second), not only did they alter an application for an entry permit, (as is our right under RD240/2007) into one for reagrupacion familiar (which is not applicable to our situation, and not what we had prepared for in our application), but yet again, they refused us based on the marriage not being recognised or registered by the British Government.

Yet they subsequently sent me a letter clearly stating that recognition is NOT a barrier to a visa.

Is it incompetence? Is it racism? Is it a personal vendetta? These are questions to which one can only assume an answer.

But I believe that, in suggesting a specific type of visa application, and advising us in its preparation, then charging us for a visa application (which the law states should have been free of charge). And then refusing the visa because of reasons of which they were already aware, and quoting irrelevant laws in an attempt to cover up their refusal could quite reasonably be considered to be a fraudulent act.

Sir, my marriage is irrefutably genuine, and our intentions entirely honourable. My wife and I wish to live and work in Spain together, paying our taxes as we go.

The level of suspicion, the accusations of us having a marriage of convenience, accusations of using forged or falsified documentation, the deliberate changing of visa type, the charging money for what should be free applications, the deliberate attempts to confuse and confound, the virtual interrogation of my wife during an ‘interview’ and her being told to sign a sworn statement, biased and prejudiced in its content, the requests for irrelevant, additional documentation, the refusal of applications on spurious grounds, the use of laws which do not apply to our situation and family status all support my viewpoint that the consular staff have conducted a cruel and persistent vendetta against us, which has caused us untold anguish and grief, and at great cost both in time and of course financially. We have suffered my wife being told to hand over her wedding ring for inspection, having it sneered at, then handed back to her.

The same man in my meeting with him on the 29th October refused to even look at copies of the European Directive which I had had printed and bound in order to show the relevant point of law, Having travelled 10,000km from Spain to discuss our application, he told me, for a reason I have yet to discover, that it was a lot more expensive in the UK to bring a spouse into the country, that I was wasting his time, that European Law had no influence on Spain and that I should employ an Immigration Lawyer, “if I could afford one.”

I feel that not only should the Defensor del Pueblo instruct the Manila consulate to issue an entry visa immediately, but that they should be made to apologise for their appalling behaviour, more akin to something one might imagine happening in Soviet Russia than in a modern European nation. Not everyone who applies for a visa wishes to become an illegal immigrant. Not every couple who marry have done so simply to gain access to European citizenship. They might do well to remember that in the future.

Atentamente

Chris Whewell


In response to my letter to the Defensor del Pueblo, get this......!

They delegated the problem to.....the Spanish Consulate in Manila.

Not surprisingly, the reply was not helpful. In fact, they again quoted a law which doesn't apply to us, and stated that as our marriage is not registered with the British Registry Office (no foreign marriages are registered with the GRO), they will consider us and treat us as a Pareja de Hecho - a common-law couple.

Naturally, I wrote back to the Defensor del Pueblo....

Dear Sir

Yet again, I repeat. Real Decreto 987/2015 does not apply to a wife or husband.

It is legislation designed to cover extended family, and specifically states that wives and husbands 'conyuge' are not included in the legislation.

Uno. Se introduce un nuevo artículo 2.bis con la siguiente redacción:
«Artículo 2.bis. Entrada y residencia de otros familiares del ciudadano de un Estado miembro de la Unión Europea o de otros Estados parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo.
1. Se podrá solicitar la aplicación de las disposiciones previstas en este real decreto para miembros de la familia de un ciudadano de un Estado miembro de la Unión Europea o de otros Estados parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo a favor de:
a) Los miembros de su familia, cualquiera que sea su nacionalidad, no incluidos en el artículo 2 del presente real decreto, que acompañen o se reúnan con él y acrediten de forma fehaciente en el momento de la solicitud que se encuentran en alguna de las siguientes circunstancias:

You will understand that this law applies to family members NOT INCLUDED IN ARTICLE 2 OF THE PRESENT ROYAL DECREE.

Article 2 of RD240/2007 says:

Artículo 2. Aplicación a miembros de la familia del ciudadano de un Estado miembro de la Unión Europea o de otro Estado parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo.

El presente real decreto se aplica también, cualquiera que sea su nacionalidad, y en los términos previstos por éste, a los familiares de ciudadano de otro Estado miembro de la Unión Europea o de otro Estado parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo, cuando le acompañen o se reúnan con él, que a continuación se relacionan:

a) A su cónyuge, siempre que no haya recaído el acuerdo o la declaración de nulidad del vínculo matrimonial, divorcio o separación legal.

What is it that you can't understand about this? Royal Decree 987/2015 does not include married couples and cannot be used against them.

A Civil Register for marriages carried out abroad does not exist in Britain. A Certificate of Recognition of Foreign Marriage is available ONLY in Spain, and ONLY following an interview where both parties to the marriage are present, at a consulate or embassy IN SPAIN.

Sir, I do not have a 'pareja de hecho'. I have a marriage. We are in possession of a wedding certificate, registered in the Philippines, authenticated by the Filipino DFA, legalised by yourselves and translated by a traductor jurado.

Our wedding certificate is irrefutable proof of a legally celebrated and ongoing marriage.

Melody Whewell is my conyuge, covered under RD240/2007, specifically NOT included under RD987/2015, and therefore shares my rights to freedom of movement as covered in 2004/38/EC and RD240/2007.

Therefore, I am requesting that you respect our rights under the laws mentioned above and desist from your attempt to disparage and cast doubt on the veracity of legal documents.

Atentamente

Chris Whewell

To which I have heard....nothing.

And so, I wrote again today: My letter basically states the same points - that the marriage is genuine and legal, and that the laws used against us do not apply.

Dear Sirs,

Since I wrote to you on 2nd March, asking for information regarding the above complaint, I have received no reply. I would like to know how long you expect to take in making your decision.

As I wrote to you asking for intervention in a matter between my wife and I and the Spanish Consulate in Manila, I was surprised to see that you appear to have delegated the finding of a solution to the very same people about whom I complained.

I was also surprised to see that they have again quoted RD987/2015, which specifically states is an addendum to RD240/2007, and only covers extended family members. It specifically states that it applies only to those people not included in article 2 of RD240/2007. Article 2 of RD/240/2007 states (a) conyuge.

As my wife is in possession of a registered, authenticated, legalised and translated wedding certificate, she is able to prove her family link to me.

RD240/2007 grants the right under Spanish law for my wife to be given an entry visa (articulo 4) Moreover, it states clearly in the law that the visa shall be free of charge, yet we have been forced to pay approximately 60 euros on each of the past two applications.

The Spanish consulate personnel in Manila have insisted that the marriage be registered in Britain. However, a marriage conducted outside of Britain cannot be entered onto a register, because no such register exists.

The British Foreign and Commonwealth Office have issued a letter confirming that they cannot offer this facility. They also state that they will consider as valid any marriage conducted in accordance with the laws of the country in which the marriage was celebrated. The Spanish Consulate staff in Manila have a copy of this letter.

As previously stated, my wife is in possession of a registered, authenticated, legalised and translated wedding certificate, she is able to prove her family link to me. No court in Spain or Europe would agree with the Spanish position that we be treated as a Pareja de Hecho, as stated in the latest email from Manila.

The refusal by your staff in Manila is based on a law that does not apply to married couples, and making the registration of our marriage in Britain a requirement before they will accept the validity of our marriage and grant a visa. This contradicts their own email to me on 4th September 2015, (a copy of which is already in your possession)

May I once again request that your decision is made with all due haste, and that it comes directly from the Defensor del Pueblo, and is not delegated again to the Spanish consulate in Manila.

I respectfully request that you reply to this letter forthwith, explaining when you expect to be able to make a decision.

Atentamente

Chris Whewell

PS: Sorry for such a long post. Maybe it will be useful to somebody in the future. Meanwhile I will send this same email to them on a daily basis until they reply.

I'll keep you posted, (but refrain from posting each daily repeat sending of this latest email to them)

I think it's 99.9% likely to be a scam.

The way this works is that they know you don't have a work permit. So you will contact the scam company set up as 'immigration consultants' who will want money to set up a 'visa'.

Frankly I think you've been had. Throw it in the bin and forget about it.

It would be highly unusual for a reputable UK employer to be looking for an accountant in this fashion.

The above address is the address of a serviced office (ie a temporary office) in London and I can find no record of a registered company called Sure <anything> consultants at the above address. This sort of serviced office is popular with scammers.

The format of the mail and its content is also suspect. Job offers just don't look like this. You would receive a formal job offer with a contract of employment. The spelling and grammar errors are also suspect.

You are not going to get an offer of "free accommodation and feeding". It's just not going to happen. That in itself makes this a 'too good to be true' letter = quite apart from the fact that this is a grammatical error that no-one would make in Human Resources.

What is the name and UK address of the company that you believe is offering you a job?

I really recommend that you do NOT send any money, personal documents or anything else to these people.

Hi Chris,
I can appreciate the frustration you and your wife must be feeling.
It seems that you are going to object to the outcome and you have every right to do that.
However, if the situation continues, would it be a possibility for your wife to get a spousal visa from the British Embassy in the Philippines, travel to the UK, then go on the schengen visa route into Spain?
Perhaps when she is in Spain, your case would be more urgent for them to resolve.

I don't know how this would affect your situation but it is an option.

In the meantime I wish you success in your actions.

I'm sorry for your situation @CampelloChris.

I feel your frustration, but I reckon that you can write long letters for a year and you will get nowhere.

Frankly I think you will need to engage a very specialized immigration attorney if you want to fight the system direct. Despite the contradictions and everything else, common sense doesn't come into it. That will be a very expensive, stressful and time consuming process.

Perhaps you might be better off looking for a way 'around' the problem rather than a direct assault. Why don't you try and get her a Schengen visa to come temporarily visit you, and then get your marriage recognised in Spain when she arrives? Even if that means getting married for a second time if needs be...

I was also going to suggest getting a spouse visa to the UK and getting married (again) in the UK in order for you to have your magical document but that might be a bit long winded..

Getting married again won't be an option because; we are already married, to do so would 'admit' that we don't have a legal marriage, and therefore let the Spaniards off the hook, and the chances of getting her a visa into the UK are slim to bugger all. I did make an enquiry to Jhoanna Hines at the British Embassy in Manila, but she basically crapped all over the idea of that being an easy (or possible) option. And they couldn't carry out such a service at the Embassy because we are already legally married - impossible to get a marriage licence from the Philippines, and that they don't want the lawns trodden on or something.

It sounds like a nightmare.

I don't understand why she can't apply for a Schengen (visit) visa to come to spain, and then you register your marriage in spain whilst she is there. Then presumably she can go home, and you can apply for a visa again..

Alternatively, can you move back to the UK, get a job that meets the income requirements, and then apply for a spouse visa so at least you can be together in the UK? It might not be your first choice, but sometimes life is like that. I wound up doing something similar. I was in the USA and it was going to be a pain to get her there and take a long time. So I left the country, moved to the UK, waited a year and applied for (and got) a spouse visa. There is always a way.

There is no reason why she couldn't apply for a Schengen visa apart from the Spaniard's continual abuse of authority, misuse of laws, ignorance, obtuseness and racism. Apart from that, things are hunky-dory. The thing is, I've given up on us ever getting a visa from them in Manila, and as it stands, I'm gathering evidence to use against them in court. It may all come to nought in the end, but it's an interesting hobby in the meantime. I'm going to try to introduce the Spanish to a little Anglo-Saxon terminology as we progress, but for now, I'm content to confuse them with the cryptic and garbled translations provided by Google.

We are applying to Malta. Should we be granted the visa (which is a right under EU law, and not something we should be fighting for), it will provide an interesting juxtaposition to the Spanish procedures, and may well be useful come the day when we present our case to the European Commission.

If it fails, (and that might be due to Melody's grand collection of Visa Denied stamps in her passport) we will go to the press, in the UK, in Spain, both English and Spanish, and in the Philippines. I would be interested to hear from anyone else who a) is British, living in Spain, and b) got married in the Philippines.

My own opinion is that there is theft and corruption being carried out in the Spanish consulate. I think they pocket the money paid over for applications, and shred the paperwork once any appeal period has expired. The cost of an appeal to Madrid after an initial appeal (to the very same people who refused the initial application has been decided upon) is around 1500 euros. They have an endless supply of applicants who can't afford that.

This might all sound paranoid, but if anyone else can explain how so many applications are refused, and yet the official figures state that Spain only refuse 6.1% of Schengen applications, I'd be interested in checking the maths used.

Moving to the UK is not an option. I have neither friends, family or fortune, and I would need at least one of those to be able to get a foothold. £18,600 p.a and six months of having earned that before I can even consider applying for Melody to come is also a hurdle that might take even more time to jump over. At least here I can earn good money and be able to go to the Phils for a week when the pressure builds too much

Absolutly no need to go anywhere once your spouse reaches Europe with or without a visa if they are with you they are legal residents as long as you are first 90 days without condition

If they would abide by the rules and laws, then yes. But they won't.

We have been accused of everything under the sun, and when we disprove their argument, they move the goalposts and accuse us of something else.

I got this from your europe/ solvit today:

Dear Chris,

Your complaint was sent to the service "SOLVIT" and not to Your Europe Advice which is the reason why I could not find it in the first place.

On your case I am sorry to inform you that looking into the data base of SOLVIT your case was not accepted by SOLVIT UK and it is marked that you should have received a reply from the UK SOLVIT centre

The underlying problem about the recognition of foreign marriage certificates in Spain is known to the Commission Services and the evaluation about the practice is ongoing.


I am sorry to have no better news for you.


Evaluation about the practice is ongoing?

How long should this take to resolve? An afternoon? A day?

Hi Chris.

Your letters to the Spanish Ombudsman are very long and detailed.

Would a shorter letter be easier for them to understand, and have more impact?

Best of luck!

I write them in Spanish, which would be a bit useless to post on here. But a good suggestion. So here goes;

Dear Muppet

I'm British and live in Spain. I'm married. I want her to come here, so my wife needs a visa. The inbred morons in your consulate in Manila keep ballsing it up. Sort it out. Now!

Yours Sincerely

Chris Whewell

havnt read this all 2003 case law dont know if it helps

http://curia.europa.eu/juris/showPd...=en&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=298220

I'm sorry, as I appreciate the effort in trying to find relevant case law - I've been trying to do the same with the European Commission database - but this relates to residence, and not to the visa. I don't think there will be a problem once she enters the country, but it's down to her getting a visa.

As I type this, Melody is in transit, on the way to VFS to submit an application for a visa to the Maltese Embassy (which is in Beijing, and hopefully staffed by people who have such a tiny grasp of the law that they simply approve every submission!)

Hopefully Melody will make it clear that she is applying for a Type "D" Visa and not a Type "C". The words "Family Reunification" should be prominent in her sponsor's letter. Other than that, it should be fairly quick and easy - Perxi, the lady at VFS who deals with all Malta applications. is a very nice young woman who is very thorough and she does try to be helpful.

You should have a quick decision, although VFS will tell you that the Maltese Embassy takes around 15 working days to process applications, our two were processed in 5 or 6. We sallie-forth on the 29th, arriving early afternoon of the 30th and will be initially based at the Sliema Hotel.

Dear Alexander

Thank you for your reply. Finally, things begin to make sense. I presume that if the process is being evaluated, a vitual moratorium on the granting of entry permit visas to EU/Non-Eu couples intending to settle in Spain is underway.

This of course raises another question of why I have struggled for the past eight months to discover this. And of course, why consular staff are not instructed to refuse to accept applications when they know full well that they will be refused.

Can you tell me when this evaluation process began please, who is evaluating it, and how to contact them, as my input may be of some use, if only to highlight the kind of stresses and strains imposed on couples affected by this impasse.

Thank you for your help to date. I loook forward to receiving your reply

Kind Regards


Chris Whewell



The above is my reply to Grow-Your-Europe, who have finally shed some light (A grow-light?) on why we keep getting refused by the Spanish Consulate in Manila. I suspect that they are under instruction to refuse all applications while the 'evaluation process' is ongoing.

Which smells a bit, because if they had told me that the 'evaluation' was being carried out, and that they were unable to grant visas in the interim period, it would have saved me considerable expense.

If I can find out that there was indeed such instruction given, I think their acceptance of doomed-to-fail applications (and the charging a fee) could quite easily be seen to be fraudulent.

Thoughts?

I do not believe this is so the place to ask this question is here https://www.facebook.com/groups/914234051926627/ on SS Spain since all the people (nearly 800 members) will have needed to acsess shengan to have arrived there, if Spain was refusing all Im sure it would have been talked about on the main free movement group which I am one of the Admin

The evaluation is probably the Commision, they have various evaluations on the UK as well unfortunatly this can take years to gain compliance

I received a reply from Alexander. The evaluation has been under way since April 2015, three months before we made our first application of three.

Thanks for posting on SS Keith. Someone has been on this evenng and explained that they have managed to get the Certificate of Recognition of a Foreign Marriage prior to getting their Schengen visa. I had been told that it was ONLY available once both parties were in Spain. It could provide a solution, should the Maltese refuse us as well

After reading your posts I am thinking you must be a very patient chap indeed, I couldn't cope with the hurdles you're having to jump over.

I sincerely hope you get it all sorted out soon, good luck.

Actually Timmers, I have Walter Mitty fantasies of going in there (the Spanish consulate) with a home made flame thrower made from a butane bottle, and using it as an effective, if cumbersome diplomatic bargaining tool.

But I also have fantasies of seeing my wife walk through the doors of Barajas airport, and the two scenarios are not mutually compatible.

She has a calming influence on me. Because by now, my default position would have been butane-powered. There is a baldy-head Spaniard in there who instructed my wife to take off her wedding ring 'for inspection', sneered at it and handed it back to her. He'd get it first!

Malta may provide the solution because there is no way, in the current impasse between Spain and Britain, that a visa will appear. I have a beautiful and sexy wife, and I want to do rude things to her. And so Malta is more expedient. The Spaniards and Brits can still be dealt with in the meantime.

My future claim for adjudication at the European Court of Human Rights/ European Commission will be based not just on the decisions taken against us, but on the lack of transparency. Either the British or Spanish could have taken me to one side and explained what was going on, and that a visa would not be forthcoming. I could have (eventually) accepted that, and used the time and money to visit her more often, and embark on our business plan. Instead, I have made application after application, and written over a hundred emails to various Governmental departments, NGOs, agencies and the like, asking for help, not knowing that I was wasting time, money and energy.

My claim will also be based on the British insisting that the Certificate of Recognition of a Foreign Marriage is ONLY available once both parties have arrived in Spain, and yet I have discovered yesterday that a Moroccan/British couple obtained the very same certificate from the British Embassy in Rabat. According to my World Traveler's Atlas, Rabat is not in Spain.

We have, and are being used as political point-scorers, with both the British and Spanish unwilling to bend in order to resolve our situation, and instead, being used by them both in order to reinforce their individual intransigence. At a significant emotional and financial cost and delay to my wife and I.

And in the pursuit of justice in this case, patience and the long-view will be better than my instinctive 'dummy-spitting' sulks.