How much money is a working man's 'nest-egg' ?

There is I'm sure a wide variety of social 'classes' on this forum to which I'd like to send out this question to.
I read here and there about folk looking at the prospect of retiring over to the Phiippines, and some seem to decide along the lines of if they have enough savings, or 'nest-egg' to get them there and settled. Some of us haven't reached the retirement age yet, but would still like to give it a go.
Where would the general ball-park figure lie if someone aged say 53 ( me ) with no pension income.
I always believe in something if I plan to start a business, and I am very sure that with our 'nest-egg' we could set up our small eatery, we already have our house, and with the small amount of money we would make would be enough to pay for the general running of the house and food etc.
That way we wouldn't need to be always drawing from our money in the bank.
I'm just a working man, having had my own business some years ago, but now I just earn a small portion of the amount I used to.
I don't want this to start into a 'I've got more money than thou' thread, but if I said I had in the region of £60k to see us on our way, would anyone like to comment on whether they think this amount would be suffice to make a decent start-up for life over there ?.
I don't go for the big mansion house, we just have a basic 3 bedroomed bungalow with a huge garden. (it does need some work done though )
I would hate to think that if this kind of money would run out quickly I would need to come back to Europe myself and start working again to send money to my wife.

Thoughts please ?

Jonny

Good question. How long is a piece of string. I know Mr Micawber has done a lot of research on this. I have just been watching from afar, over the course of time, both his and other people's opinions.

It will depend a lot on you but one thing I would say is watch out for exchange rates. What you have in pounds might not be worth as much in the future as it is at this moment in time. Micawber is working on 40 pesos to the £ as a safety factor. Not only that, prices are going up over there week on week.

How about keeping your bungalow and renting it out - living off the rental income. That way you have a back door open to the UK should you change your mind about the Philippines, once you have been in the Philippines for a while.

Thanks for that reply John,....I'm afraid that the amount I put forward is the free funds when we sell up here !! Would be a good idea otherways, but we need the funds to set up a small business there.
The exchange rates are worrying me obviously, and there would be the game of trying to intercept the right time to transfer money over there if the rate ever went up.
However, I'd imagine there could be some expats who live there successfully without having a great deal of cash available. Mind you,..the pension would have been a bonus for us going over.

What about your state pension, John?

As in : keeping up the contributions ?
or ; I'm 53 and don't qualify till 65 ?

As in do you qualify for one once you reach pensionable age? Having said that, it is quite a way into the future for you.....

He will have to wait till he's at least 66 years old before he gets that.
Wouldn't advise a foreigner to set up an eatery, even in the wife's name.
60k will not last too long, take into account private health.
Suppose if you don't travel too much and very careful with the cash, eat Pinoy stye food.
Might last ten/fifteen years.

In a word: don't. Please take-off those rose-tinted glasses through which you're optimistically viewing a future life here. By all means come here to retire, provided you can afford to do so. But please don't imagine that you can supplement your income by operating an eatery - or any other business - because the odds are stacked against you. You can not apply western logic to eastern situations - a mistake that foreigners and Balikbayans alike are wont to make.

If you do invest in an eatery, your success will last as long as it takes another Filipino to set-up a stall next to you selling the same wares for a few Pesos less.

This is quite an interesting point that you make and one that I think I understand. Thanks.

I imagine that what we might consider to be low profit margins are probably good enough profit margins to many Filipinos?

The small canderia would be set up to give my wife and her mum something to work at to earn a little contribution to the bills.
Sorry to tell you Markham, but I been going out there for 8 years now,..I dont go over to sit and drink endless amounts of beer, but have been sussing the place out. The rose tinted glasses is a bit 'old hat' to me,..I took mine off years ago. Now I recognise the opertunities in this small village, what is missing and where a small food outlet could flourish. Remember that venues and situations vary hugely over there between villages and of coarse the city.
I remember the days when there was an eatery in this village,..small room for kareoke, and sold bottled beer. It was always busy,..it was a meeting point for all the locals, even during the week. Folk just went for an evening walk at sunset and ended up sitting outside this place till midnight. Pity the owner died about 3 years ago and no-one has ever built anything the same since. Folk now just hover around the roadside chatting, sometimes standing outside that place (although its closed). That's the gap I want to fill.
Still giving it a lot of thought though ....

Jonny

I know how you feel Jon.. Ive felt I had to try to escape early from the UK and live in the R.P since my early 20`s!!
I tried the Sari sari`s and the canderia`s and the poultry and pig farms in my wife`s province..Ive bought tricycles,and jeeps and even once tried to go into the firework business!! We`ve had Tilapia ponds in Talisay,Batangas and a British bakery,coffee shop and restaurant in Ermita..Not to mention the dress making business and the Beauty parlour...Ive tried selling pies to Brits and Yanks and nearly opened a bar once.. Waiting and trying to guide/force a business to click over here can be VERY frustrating and often times fills desperate expats with regret and wishing they can turn back the clock whilst sweating and worrying in the hot sun and being presented with another utility bill...
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
The money I have lost here is frankly incredible!!!
I do not regret one second of course as these failures gave me all the experience I required to try again until something clicked..
My feeling is that your plan has been tried by would be expats for years..I still see these types of business`s starting all over the P.I and I gotta tell you...Most of them dont last.
As for making enough money here to live on with these type of ventures,I gotta tell you again honestly.I think you are flogging a dead horse..
There are ways to make a living here and you may just have enough cash (Capital) to make a reasonably steady although not huge income.. It just doesn't involve opening up a sari sari store ect.. (At least at first)
In your own mind,how much do you think you will need to live here? Do you have kids to support and send to school etc?

Consider for one minute why it is that nobody has sought to open a similar establishment in that village because Filipinos are not backward about coming forward if they see a money-making opportunity, even if it is subsistence level income. Could it be that the now closed eatery didn't make any money, possibly losing money, and that is known locally?

Have you also considered the fact that you would need to establish permanent residence here first - you can not own/operate any business as a visitor or as a beneficiary of a Balikbayan Privilege? And are you aware that you must now demonstrate financial capability in order to support your wife and any dependants as part of the 13(a) first year temporary visa and its conversion to a full residency permit a year later? Are you also aware that as a foreigner you will not be permitted to neatly side-step the bureaucratic requirements of owning/operating a business as Filipinos can and do -- meaning that you will need to apply and pay for business permits from the local Mayor, permits from the Fire Department and Public Health as well as registration with BIR? All this costs money. And have you factored-in the transportation costs of your raw materials and their storage? Finally, will you be able to provide meals as cheaply or cheaper than your customers could obtain elsewhere, including at home?

At best you will barely have enough income to support your outgoings.

I know of only 3 expats who have viable businesses, one of whom is actually a member of this Forum, Gunther, who operates eateries within the shipyards at Balamban. The second is a Welshman who has operated a custom furniture business in Cebu for around 10 years here. But he's not making much money. The third is a British-born Australian who, together with his wife Elsa, operates Cebu Expat Services but their moderate success is down to the fact that they plough their profits back into the business and live quite frugally in a small rented terrace house north of the City and without aircon or cable/satellite TV. Their business originally comprised obtaining visitor extensions for expats too lazy to go to the Bureau of Immigration and has since branched out into motorcycle rentals and organising weddings - something they excel at.

Conversely my former builder, an American who has never completed any project he started, including his own home, thought it would be a good idea to open a Sari-Sari on his property. The building didn't cost him a penny because he used materials he stole (mine) for its construction. That Sari-Sari haemorrhages cash for three reasons: it's not open before 9am and closes at 5pm, he's in competition with three similar stores in a small village and thirdly, for religious reasons, he refuses to stock/sell alcohol and tobacco products.

I strongly urge you to pay heed to Oss' and Januarius' posts and reconsider your plans.

John,

I don't think the advice gets much better than the above. It makes interesting reading for me too. My feeling is that with a bigger nest egg then more things are do-able but isn't that always the case. Sounds like Micawber is going to go for it but he appears to have accumulated a large nest egg and evidently has some canny plan(s) up his sleeve.

I have a feeling that there is a cut off point somewhere but am not certain where. I am sure it isn't just one fixed figure but more a cut of point range of figures, depending on many factors.

I would be quite terrified of being identified as the "owner" of any retail business in the Philippines.

Since Juan de la Cruz knows that all Kanos are rich, he will assume that he need not pay, and will resent being asked to pay.

B2B businesses are another matter, and don't have that problem. They have other problems.

Some of the other problems are the permanent fear of a "shakedown" by a local politician, the bureaucratic minefield, and last but by no means least the work ethic of the Filipino, which is not that of a Japanese, a Korean or a Chinese.

Filipinos work, but only at one speed. It is no use asking a Filipino to work overtime to meet a deadline - if he does, he will phone in sick the next day. And don't expect him to show initiative.

Thanks for all this advise , and it certainly deserves of me to reply and keep this thread going.
I have read into every one of the postings here, taking everyone's view, and I'm not going to turn round and just say,."well I'm going to do it anyway" and dismiss everyone's advise.
So I will give my own more in-depth reasons for wanting to try.
Firstly,..my wife's mum is the village cook !,..she is asked by many folk to go prepare and cook food for parties, Fiesta's and part-time in a canderia about a mile along the road. She was paid more money than any other cook there because of the customers loving her cooking (fact ).
The village we stay at,..yes, we already own our house there,.. is away down the west coast of Cebu island,...miles from any hotels, pubs, lodging houses, and malls. It is a fishing village (most villages are) but this one has a dock-yard which employs 45 - 50 lads from other islands,...they do not go home for months,..just get off the boats in the morning and (used to ) head off to that canderia I mentioned that is now closed. they now hover about the roadside,..after they have scraped a breakfast anywhere along the road.
These would be my main interest,..I have been on-board with them several times fishing overnight and they all know me. My wife and I have been invited many times to the vast house of the shipyard owner. I like to think that he is a good friend,..I don't go there to please him, I go because we have a lot in common and we get on great. My wife and his daughter went to school together and are best friends. There is also the attraction for me in that nobody 'messes' with this family,..not a 'mafia' family,..but more because they have been the life-blood of this village for generations, feeding and selling their fish to the locals. Another sensible reason to call him my friend !!
I know the reason that no-one else took over from the canderia that closed,...the two owners, husband and wife, did make money there,..they were busy building small sleep-over rooms for the Ceres bus drivers and he had expanded his land to grow his own veg and keep animals out the back. I believe he invested a lot of his money into the place and unfortunately his wife never had the desire to continue after he died. I'm very good friends with their family too, as it was my favourite place to go at sunset to meet the locals and watch the sun setting over on the neighboring islands. The only place I could ask for a 'tab' and pay at the end of the night.
Another suggestion was the local authority spoiling the game,... okay , this might happen,..but my wife is also school mates with the Mayor's daughter. I have been itroduced several times to him over the years,..he wants to take me out rod fishing in his pump-boat some day. If I asked him to come along to our house for dinner with his family, I know for sure he would come.
The police,..??.... it's been the same 4 guys for the last 8 years,..I met them when I first came over and have sat on my motorbike at the side of the road chatting to them for ages while they sit in their 4x4. I'd consider them friends too (as I do ALL the locals ).
I don't really want to be the 'owner' of this canderia,..it will all be for the benefit of my wife and kids ! Yes, we have kids to go over too,..and we have already been to the private school in the village to see the place , which is ran by the nuns and is English speaking.
I have had a very profitable business which fell 6 years ago,..and I employed a hellova lot of guys so I think I satisfy the requirements for a business plan, although as we all know , its a lot differant over there. But i still think I'm able to plan into the Filipino way and give it a go.

Still thinking !!

Jonny

Just to add even more replies,....

Markham,... the main food market, fish / pork / chicken and veg are within walking distance from the house,.. a quick tricycle ride would bring in the days ingredients, ( dictated by wife's mum )
Cooking would be done just out the rear of the canderia in a dirty kitchen, then brought through and poured into glass hot-tray displays on the counter.
As for making cheap meals,..yes,...I have seen the 'ready meals in a ploy bag' taken away home to eat. Can't be too expensive to buy 5,000 poly bags ?
Litson manok,... I wont go into that as I think there are enough vendors along in the village 'proper' and the prices are all the same, mind you, there's none along our side of the village .
Another factor was that our house is one house away from the big school. Huge crowds at lunch times and at 4 o'clock when they finish for the day.

I will hold my hands up and say that I was hoping to set all this up while I'm just using the BB stamp for the year. I had planned to just use this method for the first 3 or 4 years .
I could speak to a couple of ex-pats there (the ONLY 2 ) who are in business there on the other side of the village, and ask them how they approached doing trade.

Thanks again for everones input,.. I know it won't be an easy decision, and there will be a few things that I've overlooked, so keep them coming, good or bad.
Maybe the 60K was a bit on the conservative side,..as I still have my on-going business to sell and our fleet of cars and vans !!

Jonny

Jonny..
I read your post and you sound as enthusiastic as I did 27 years ago.. Great feeling aint it?
Look...Sounds like you have already made up your mind so....Off you go!!.. It doesnt matter what we tell you,its probably something in your life that you are destined to try.
IMO you should NOT sell your house...Just save enough cash to last you and your immediate family a year and small capital to start your dream business of course... If things ever did go pear shaped then at least you can get you and yours home to a house that you OWN.
Give it 6 months or far better a year to see how you are all doing in reality ..
If it looks by that time you are self sufficient with room for expansion then perhaps thats the time to go for broke and sell up..
Personally,I would give it 3/4 years to be sure if you last that long!!
Hey..If you last that long,I will be the very first to say Congratulations!!
The people that you have met there seem to be good people... Just dont forget that once you are there long term that these relationships can change..
IMO..You are on your own with your wife and kids... Dont rely on anyone else but them..
Good luck with your plans BTW!!
Cheers,
Januarius.

Well I did say give me your in-put , good or bad,..but I meant advise !!
I have NOT made my mind up 100% as you seem to think , and the manner you wrote it was a bit below the belt ! Is that not the purpose of a forum like this ( a BRITISH one at that !),.. to try to gain others in-site into an idea ??
However,..if that's your way to 'write off' someone's idea,..then fine !
Thank you for your in-put anyway

Jonny

I admire your determination and you do appear to have done your homework - to an extent. I've already given you the financial reasons why I believe yours to be a "not such a brilliant idea", I'll now give you the bureaucratic reasons as to why you almost certainly won't be able to fulfil this dream.

You say you will apply for a Balikbayan Privilige when you arrive. Yes, that's a good idea but you won't be able to engage in any form of business pursuit whilst you're living here with a BB.

In January of this year, the Bureau of Immigration introduced new additional requirements for those applying for permanent residency Visas, principally for the Section 13(a) Visa (marriage). The first is that all applicants for both the first year's temporary Visa and the subsequent permanent Visa must produce Police Clearance Certificates from their home country. You will therefore not be able to sell your home in Scotland until after you have successfully applied for your full and permanent 13(a) - the reason being that you will need to apply for the second PCC from your usual UK address (see ACPO's PCC site for further explanatory details). In both cases, the Bureau of Immigration will not accept PCCs that are more than six months' old and want them ideally to be less than 3 months' old. Both certificates must be authenticated by the Philippine Embassy in London.

The second new requirement is that you must now show financial stability and capability to support yourself, your wife and any dependants. Unfortunately BI does not stipulate exactly what it means by that but as a friend of ours is a senior Immigration Officer, I asked him to explain this. He told me that for the initial application, they'd require a minimum of 6 months' worth of bank statements, from a Philippine Bank, showing income sufficient to support the family unit. Wives are now interviewed and carefully questioned about the family budget. As a rough guide, I understand that a childless couple would need to show income of Php35,000 per month (that's for Davao and probably much of Cebu as well; Manila's level would be higher) and that amount rises with each dependant. And, of course, since you won't yet be in possession of a permanent residents' ACR-I Card, that income must come entirely from an overseas source. For the full and permanent 13(a), you will need to produce statements covering the previous year and again they'd be looking for evidence of a sufficient income stream, part of which can be derived from local sources.

In both cases they will not consider your wife's earnings or savings nor will they consider any savings held in bank accounts situated outside the country.

You should also bear in mind that your wife has lost some of her citizen rights here by virtue of her prolonged absence and it will take around one year of continuous residence for her to reacquire those rights. The main loss is her ability to acquire real property is (severely) restricted but there are also restrictions on business ownership as well as her ability to vote at elections.

It is no big secret that the Bureau does have a pretty good network of informants who supply it with information about foreigners and it is taking an increasingly harder line with those who flout this country's laws and immigration regulations. So please don't even contemplate having a business on your/your wife's land at least until you have secured your temporary 13(a).