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Husband working abroad

Discussion in 'UK Visa and Immigration Help' started by Filipina, Nov 9, 2017.

  1. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    but why would ukvi grant her a visa in the first place--if her husband had been out of the country for 10 years ? because he said it was his intention to stay in the UK ?----or--more likely--he was never asked about his employment history ! the OP says they used savings to meet the requirement !

    what possible point would it be to deny her FLR just because her husband works overseas?

    as i said earlier..if she applies using savings--and pays for same day service---its job done. why would anyone at ukvi delve deeper restrospectively ?

    john--i think your over complicating it.
  2. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    You know and I know @bigmac that what matters in these situations is the letter of the law. Not what the point is, what common sense is or what our opinions are. The original application would have been made on this basis they they intended to live permanently together in the UK. So they were given benefit of the doubt despite her husbands recent return from abroad. However to then move back abroad within a short time nullifies that provisional grant of ordinarily resident status, and calls the application into question.

    I'm trying to give the OO accurate advice as to the law. I am sure that you would agree that her application would be a great deal more certain to succeed with her husband working in the UK.

    Once she has ILR he is free to work where he likes. Until that point, its a good deal safer to abide by the letter of the law than to blindly rely on an uninterested caseworker interpreting the facts to your advantage..
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  3. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    oh-- i certainly agree it would be a lot simpler and easier all round if he can work in the UK, its just that for the life of me i cant see a caseworker delving into anything not part of the application.---just proof of savings--proof of accommodation--and evidence they are at the same address--joint letters etc. same day service doesnt allow any time for checking.
    its still a long way from the FLR application..and theres is no requirement for the sponsor to prove his whereabouts in the meantime.
  4. John Surrey
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    John Surrey Active Member

    For some reason you seem to want to apply taxation/accounting legislation to the filling in of a form for a visa...

    The guy went back to the UK intends to stay there with his wife etc... then he finds some work abroad - starts working abroad but regularly comes back to spend time with his wife and family UK... what's the big deal?
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  5. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I'm not trying to apply tax and account legislation for crying out loud.
    The Visa application is for spouses of persons present and settled in the UK as I explained. And these terms have very specific definitions. The term 'ordinarily resident' is most commonly used in taxation law but, as noted, also applies here since a person has to be considered ordinarily resident in order to be considered present and settled and hence qualify for sponsorship of the visa.

    So. Lets ignore that. And let's ignore what I was told by the attorney. And let's assume then you and the others who disagree are right and it doesn't matter. It's simply easier, I've had a hard day at work, and it's no skin off my nose either way.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 12:18 AM
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  6. Filipina
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    Filipina Member

    Thank you for your comments and explanations. My husband and I are hesitant thayt's why I decided to ask here as I wanted to know if someone already experience the same and I am glad that you commented and the other members.
    Thank you
  7. Filipina
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    Filipina Member

    This is exactly our plan savings route and same day service. And I am also in defense that why would they enquire for his job if we are using savings and how would they investigate more if i will get the same day service. But we were also thinking that for sure they have means of finding out if ever they will suspect.
    To be honest, i am so confused.
  8. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    i dont think you have anything to lose by doing it your way. thing is--you have to apply FLR when the time comes. your husband has to earn a living. i cant see what "they" would suspect. i can understand if he was using earnings--and showed he was working overseas and only resident in the uk a few days a year. but its not the case.

    or --to be completely safe--if he can land a UK job in the next couple of years.......
  9. HaloHalo
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    HaloHalo Administrator Staff Member

    Whichever you decide, please do let us know the outcome of your choice. Good luck.
  10. Filipina
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    Filipina Member

    Should we decide to apply and get rejected what will happen? We cannot appeal if the reason is breaking the 'ordinarily resident' status of my husband, right? So would that mean we will be send back to Philippines or is there a way that we can stay here in UK or should it be that we will re-apply for entry clearance again meaning back to zero again?
    I am honestly clueless so i would like to ask members here who got rejected for flr specially having the same reason as mine.
    Thanks.
  11. Filipina
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    Filipina Member

    @ChoiAndJoh, does this mean my husband can only work abroad after completing the 5 years here in Uk or he can apply after approval of flr?
    Thanks.
  12. John Surrey
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    John Surrey Active Member

    "There is a big difference between between considered 'resident' for tax purposes for any tax year, and being 'ordinarily resident'. The concept of 'ordinarily resident' is calculated over a four year period ... if their intention is to remain permanently. However, if they leave again, that status can be retroactively adjusted. "

    Vs (quick internet search...)

    ‘Ordinarily resident’ means ‘having a regular habitual mode of life in a particular country, the continuity of which has persisted despite temporary absences’.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-partners-set04/civil-partners-set04


    ( For guidance on applications made on or after 9 July 2012 please refer to Appendix FM which can be found at page 19 of the Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules. ... All applications submitted before 9 July 2012 should be considered under the old Rules.)


    I don't know what you were told by "the attorney" - I do know from personal experience some attorneys are not very reliable.

    I'm not looking to make a big deal out of it - just think the op deserves a balanced view.

    Good to know you're working hard, I'm just here in the Phils watching my children grow up at the moment :D
  13. Mattecube
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    Mattecube Gone Trusted Member

    www.lawfirmuk.net/spouse_e

    The terminology is specific in terms of "present and settled" no mention of taxes, periods of time etc etc.
  14. John Surrey
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    John Surrey Active Member

    Looks like they're saying more or less the same as I am...

    You see - ask one lawyer you get one answer - ask another and you get.... just like economists...:frust:
  15. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    This is ridiculous I already pointed out the definition of "present and settled' which links into the *ordinarily resident'. It's nothing to do with taxes... It's not even a difference of opinion. It's pretty damn clear what the rules are. Even the above article mentions" live permanently". Working abroad for more than 6 months of the year, for year after year, doesn't qualify as "living permanently" and being "present and settled'. It's pretty simple guys.

    If it was that easy, then I would have just returned to the UK from the USA for the purpose of a UK visa application and then gone back. Why didn't I? Because that's not why the law says. That's why.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017 at 10:28 PM
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  16. Mattecube
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    Mattecube Gone Trusted Member

    Have a good evening!
  17. John Surrey
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    John Surrey Active Member

    Yes enjoy yourself.... you've worked hard, filled in your visa form with honesty and integrity - very good John:D
  18. Mattecube
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    Mattecube Gone Trusted Member

    I copied this section very early on in the thread others have recopied it so I will do it again.
    Your right @ChoiAndJohn n its not about taxes, you were the one who copied a link on taxes from a bunch of Chartered Accountants who by omission on their site do not profess to be immigration experts.

    As I suggested in a previous post, forums will always have points of view that differ and it is down to the op (I think we can all agree on this) to decide their own course of action and as always I wish the op the very best of luck with whatever path they choose.
    I have put below in bold why I believe in my point of view and to use @ChoiAndJohn terminology "its no skin off my nose whether you agree or disagree


    4. SET4.4 What is ‘present and settled’?

    ‘Present and settled’ means that the sponsor is either:

    • settled in the UK and, at the same time that an application under the Immigration Rules is made, is physically present in the UK; or,
    • is coming to the UK with or to join the applicant and intends to make the UK their home with the applicant if the application is successful.
    ‘Settled’ is defined in paragraph 6 of HC395 and means ‘free from any restriction on the period for which he / she may remain in the UK, and ordinarily resident in the UK’.

    The husband is settled as he can stay here as long as he like he is a British Citizen,on the visa application the ECO would of had the oppurtunity to review his travel history and periods o time abroad when his passport is used as part of the application

    ‘Ordinarily resident’ means ‘having a regular habitual mode of life in a particular country, the continuity of which has persisted despite temporary absences’.

    He has within the UK a "regular and habitual mode of life" .... albeit he may choose periods of at this point undefined length of time temporary absences

    If the sponsor has temporarily traveled abroad to accompany the applicant in making the application, this will not affect the sponsor’s present and settled status. Such absence from the UK is not of itself a reason for refusal.

    Sponsors may be British citizens. Strictly speaking, a British citizen who has been resident abroad but who returns to the UK to live is not ‘admitted for settlement’. However, if he / she expresses the intention of returning to the UK to reside, the ECO can regard him/her as present and settled in the UK.

    The above is self explanatory.


    For guidance on sponsors who are permanent members of the Diplomatic Service and comparable UK-based members of the British Council,HM Forces and DFID.

    See SET06 Partners of members of the Diplomatic Service / British Council / HM Forces / DFID.Where the sponsor has not been resident in the UK for some time, the ECO should take care to ensure that the maintenance and accommodation requirements will be met.

    As I have said this is my view (of which we are all entitled to) and I would and am still happy with my original posts, further as stated I was happy and successful with my wifes first FLR application despite my temporary absences abroad at the time (various duration's over 5 years) but always coming back to the UK. I am still happy that my wifes next FLR will be progressed with these temporary absences and future ones (various duration's).

    In closing I fully respect other peoples opinions on this even if we disagree I have stayed clear of emotive phrases and wordings they do nobody any favours.
    Whatever the outcome I wish the OP good luck!
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017 at 1:47 PM

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