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Investments in Crypto currencies

Discussion in 'Money Matters' started by Jerseymarc, Feb 8, 2021.

  1. Druk1
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    Druk1 Well-Known Member

    I could sell it, I know just the place, I will keep it, no rush :)
  2. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    You're missing the point. I was trying to explain the principle to you and explain why this discussion (that seems to center around your belief that rolex watches are 'a good investment') does not constitute good investment advice.
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2022
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  3. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    my wife wants to buy an apple watch.
    Ive no idea what it is. Does it tell the time ?
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  4. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    It's a so called smart watch. It does tell the time but it interfaces to your apple phone and gives you message notifications on its little screen and such stuff like that. I don't own one so I can't comment on how good they are or how often they need recharging...
  5. Mattecube
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    Mattecube face the sunshine so shadows fall behind you Trusted Member

    She should get a pear(pair)
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  6. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I had a citizen solar pwered watch given me 18 years ago. Keeps perfect time..never needs winding..charging..new battery..nothing. Now i suppose i will go and lose it.
  7. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Groan
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  8. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Some of the Citizen eco-drive models are really nice looking watches.
  9. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    yes--its a chronometer style job--one of the very few that arent so big they look silly on my thin arm. The function buttons dont work now--so its a pain twice a year when the clocks go back/forward.
  10. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I have this image of you leaving it in the dark until it stops just so you can correct the time... :)
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  11. Lee Adams
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    Lee Adams Active Member

    As the crypto value has tumbled recently,what is it that stops major currency such as USD going in the same direction?
    What gives it its said value given the almost 30 Trillion Dollar debt in the U.S? What did they learn and what corrections did they make there since the finacial house of cards in 2008? Why didnt they at least raise interest rates then?
    Personaly,I think that Western banks and the world economy are about to crash into a hole that will take many years for us to emerge from.
    Ever since Nixon ditched the gold standard from the Dollar,the true valu3 of paper money began its decline.
    The only thing that I can see that has supported that currency since is the deal that the Saudis did with the US.
    In return for military protection from countries like Iran,Iraq etc,every barrel of oil produced will be sold in USD.
    From what I hear,all of that is about to change.
    I invest in Gold and land. They are not making anymore of it.
  12. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    ha ha--i thought that too--but it corrects itself when its left in the light for a while.
  13. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Because cryptocurrencies are not currencies. They fail the standard test for a currency - that it needs to have intrinsic value.

    A discussion of the gold standard would be out of place here but it has no bearing on what's being discussed. The gold standard was removed from currencies because of its effect on exchange rates, inflation and volatility. It is misguided to believe that gold, land or money contain some magical property that acts a hedge against devaluation. As @oss so correctly pointed out, essentials such as food, shelter, water and life have immutable value. The remainder - including land values - are completely arbitrary. If you don't believe that, buy a portfolio of highly priced beachfront property now and see what haooens to its value in 200 years when sea levels rise.

    Crypto currencies are an investment bubble - just like tech stocks in 1999 or tulip bulbs. Discussing the fortunes of crypto and the forex value of global currencies against the dollar is not the same ballpark - its not even the same sport.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
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  14. Lee Adams
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    Lee Adams Active Member

    Essentials such as food,water and life require the private ownership of land and shelter.
    In order to sustain life independently,one needs to have private access to the resources that only land can offer.
    Once your paper money is valued like something found in an old Monopoly game box,then bags of Gold will buy you more resourse rich land if extra life saving resourses are required. In fact,nothing much else will do.
    Here endeth the lesson.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
  15. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Apologies - but this is way too simplistic.

    In an apocalyptic scenario a bag of gold would be of no more interest than a bag of scrap metal - I would imagine that a bag of potassium or phosphorus as a fire starter would be more useful.

    Gold is used as an inflationary hedge in finance terms purely because its value tends to increase if the dollar loses value due to inflation - but it's value is not constant or immutable. It fluctuates wildy based on market forces and based on what people think will happen on the future - for example what they think will happen to US interest rates.

    The key point is the concept of 'value'. It is actually very hard to 'value' something. Part of the value of anything is based on what people think the value will be in the future. There is no global agency that places value to this and that, sets exchange rates and assigns prices to gold, land, currencies, bonds and other financial instruments. There is also no means to predict the future! Investment banks dedicate huge teams of people to attempting to assign value to commodities. It is not simple.

    I appreciate your point about land - but land is subject to just the same market forces. Land is not simply allocated or utilised for preservation of life. If that were the case it would be divided fairly - but it is not. Why? Because of greed. A person owns more land than they need, not because he needs extra food or to have more shelter - but because he feels he may profit in the future from it.

    After all, the current population of the earth is about 7 billion people. The land area of the planet is 57 million square miles. If we were to assume families of 4 people, and divide only half the area of the planet between them, there would still be enough land for each family of four on the planet to have a plot of almost ten acres each.

    Therefore land is bought and sold based also on changing market forces - and your belief in land as a good investment is just based on the fact that you haven't seen land prices significantly decline in your lifetime and location. I'm not saying that land is a bad investment - it's usually been very good - but its not a universal truth and - as I mentioned - coastal land in particular is going to see some value changes in the next century!

    Thete is nothing specifically different or remarkable about investing in land than there is about investing in any other commodity.

    As for the 'monopoly money' argument - in this common prepper nonsense scenario (when the zombies come) where paper money loses all its value (what exactly does that mean - think about it ) your gold (which is valued in monetary terms and not in how many loaves of bread it is worth). and land (which is valued in monetary terms and not by what you can barter for it) will suffer exactly the same devaluation.

    It is also reasonable to assume that were money to lose all its value as you claim, that the normal rules of society would also break down - which means the purely human devised concept of law, rules, land ownership or private ownership of anything would simply cease to exist.

    In such a scenario, I would suggest that someone younger or faster or luckier would simply come and kill you and take whatever they wanted.

    There is little point in talking about the breakdown of 'money' unless you take the time to consider what that really would mean.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
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  16. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I used to sell gold when i was 17..shed loads of it. I worked for a subsidiery of Johnson Matthey..in the Birmingham jewellery quarter.
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  17. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    You've had some variety eh @bigmac. ? Oh did you wind up moving house to the new forest as you planned?
  18. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Ah it's an eco-drive but also a radio controlled timepiece, it would probably sync to the broadcast radio time signal in most parts of the world but you will never travel Malcolm :)

    My Casio G-Shock does the same but sadly the weather has to be just right for the Japanese time transmitter to get picked up when I am in Metro Manila.

    My G-Shock has a DST function for correcting for Daylight savings time, I would like that to be automatic but sadly it isn't so I have to dig out the instructions twice a year.
  19. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Totally agree, what's the value of the land or property in Mariupol or elsewhere in the Donbas right now to the poor people who used to live there.
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  20. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    So where you are do you have enough land to feed you, can you grow absolutely everything you need, rice, livestock, vegetables and have you got groundwater reserves that you don't have to do anything to replenish can you make your own filtration systems to make sure that water stays clean, or do you need to trade?

    If you need to trade you are by definition not independent and trade is where the concept of value comes from, at a primitive level value can also come from war, if I beat up and kill my neighbour then I can acquire their resources trouble is someone else is likely to be bigger and stronger than me and in that world likely to do the same to me.

    Value is in the eyes of the beholder and trade is a foundation of civilised behaviour and the acknowledgement that cooperation is a little better and more useful than constant conflict.

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