More charges for Non-EU Migrants to use the NHS

I wonder if this will be extended to our spouses?

It's non-specific at the moment, but will sail through Parliament when Maggie May gets her 160+ seat blank cheque. The genie is out of the bottle, and I can see the expansion of the number of migrants being asked to pay to use the NHS. Then, maybe, it could be extended to British citizens.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39956541

Its just talking about workers at the moment but I'm guessing that could be extended to cover our spouses, I don't think it would shock us if that was how it turns out.

I look at it like this, it was my choice to bring my wife to the UK and I'm willing to pay any charges relating to her settlement in the UK.

Lets not worry or speculate too much until something does actually happen.

What happens for those migrants who work and pay into the NHS for years? Doesn't really seem fair, and is aimed at the UKIP Tories.

As you said in your opening post, "at the moment it is non specific" so I don't wish to speculate or get you know what out.

Once we know which direction we are going we can debate the finer details.

I dont mind paying more (to catch up on the contributions of a UK citizen) but it should be fair for everyone (shouldnt applied specifically to foreign spouses or EU nationals). There are people in the UK who has lived their life on dole so how different are they compared to your spouses who have paid nhs surcharge?

One example in ph (although its nothing compared to the NHS benefit) is that you cant avail of the maternity benefits (huge discount in hospital bill even in a private hospital) if you havent paid at least 36 monthly contributions.

These clauses should be put in place to help make sure that the NHS remains healthy for eveyone to use.

i wouldnt be a bit surprised to see usage of the NHS becoming a means tested benefit.

Thank you for bringing some common sense to a debate started by someone who clearly would dearly love a life where the state takes care of you from cradle to grave. Such a place does indeed exist and it's even a democratic republic. It's known as North Korea.

great post

People find themselves out of work for any number of reasons - including redundancy, infirmity, supporting young, sick or elderly relatives - and lack of suitable local opportunities.

Yes there are some malingerers - probably less than 0.01% of the total potential workforce. Benefit levels are very low

If we start denying healthcare to the unemployed this country will have gone to hell in a handcart - no better than a poor third-world country.

The cost to the State would inevitably rise as there would be thousands of emergency hospital admissions (unless of course they are just left to die) with local authorities picking up the tab for funerals.

In health terms "from the cradle to the grave" works for me and my family - it's why I gladly pay my income tax and NI.

Gerry

what i implied in my earlier post would mean the poorest in our society would get the full benefit of the NHS---whereas the richest would be having to pay for their treatment. not such a bad idea.

the more you earn the more you pay in income tax and NI contributions currently. the NHS should be for those who have and who are contributing not those that contribute to other countries and use the NHS as freebie, on another thread we have explored NHS misuse by say sports men and women,drunks and drug abuse, vehicle collisions through poor driving my views on this still stand.

Hey Mac - I understood the point you were making. My response was really in reply to our good friend Maley and our libertarian idealogue - the redoubtable Markham.

I make NO APOLOGIES for "dearly loving a life" where the State takes care of its citizens from the moment that they are conceived until the moment that they are laid to rest. Your language indicates that, perhaps, I would like to take advantage of that instead of working. I remind you, again, that I run my own business (remember, you also accused me of wanting the economy to fail!!!!), I employ a number of people, and I have put a few kids through apprenticeships. I contribute quite heavily to the treasury, to the community and to the country.

At any time any one of us can become sick, unemployed or disabled. Regardless of how much a person has paid into the coffers, each person is absolutely right to expect services for the money that they put into the Treasury through the numerous taxes we have to pay.

I pay money into National Insurance. I pay money for house insurance and car insurance. The majority of us do. I hope that I never have to use the services that my National Insurance and taxes pay for, in the same way I hope never to use house insurance or car insurance services. I pay all with the hope (the ever disappearing hope) that the taxes will benefit the weakest, sickest and most unfortunate in society. I pay with the hope that a child gets the same level of education whether she grows up in poverty, or in absolute wealth. I pay with the hope that an elderly person suffering with dementia gets a level of care befitting their illness, and not their wealth. Now you can label me a Corbynista, as if that is a bad thing.

You seem to find this distasteful. We have had a succession of Governments that have failed the poorest in society, so much so that Child Poverty continues to rise (in the old definition, not the statistically busting new definition that benefits the current and future Government). We have a Government that will happily drop millions of pounds worth of bombs on a foreign land - offering no more protection to their citizens - now taking away the only hot meal that some kids have in a day. Now, you can label me a pacifist - as if that is a bad thing.

We have a Government that, instead of strengthening ties and business routes with our larger trading partners, electing to stick two fingers up in an effort to win favour with scared old and young farts who find a fellow human being speaking a different language so intimidating they have abandoned all common sense (see, this phrase is arbitrary - everything is common sense as long as you agree with it). The same Government seeks to trade in arms with a country that is bombing Yemen to smithereens. Now you can call me a liberal - as if that is a bad thing.

A UK citizen could have followed ALL the rules the various Governments have given them, and will still end up paying. Work hard, save, buy your own place, build up a pension, pay your taxes, pay your national insurance. Follow all those rules, and accrue an estate of more than £100,000 that you hope to pass on to your kids so that they have the security you also enjoyed. It's the British way. But, please please please, don't get dementia, because all of your hard work, all of your sacrifices to own your own home, all of your planning to have a pension, all of your commitment to paying taxes - Theresa May is going to take it all, because it is there, and because her Government, and other Governments, have neglected the time bomb of an aging population with all the ailments and sickness that come with it. She can take it all, because she is getting a blank cheque. Now you can label me a Socialist, as if that is a bad thing.

I don't vote for parties because they offer me the best deal. I vote for parties because they protect the vulnerable. That is the hallmarks of a good civilization, that we use our collective wealth for the benefit of ALL. Why should the wealthiest people, and those born in wealth have better opportunities than the poorest in society? Why was it fair that, during the Thatcher years, text books were shared between two, sometimes three kids - and those books were missing pages. That I would go home from school unable to study anything because the text book was hogged by a classmate from a tougher part of town, and asking for a share would result in a fight (that I would lose)? Now you can label me bitter, you'd be right, but I'd be justified.

I think it's true, that we have unrealistic demands of the State - I think Income Tax is too low, and there is too much greed among the wealthiest in society. However, I think the State has neglected its duties for far too long, and the mess we are in now is the result of years of neglect from Tory and Labour governments. They all KNEW that life expectancy was increasing. They all held off raising the retirement age. They all refrained from taxing the wealthiest, and those that did were made unelectable by the tabloids that are run by very wealthy men.

I have a feeling my upbringing was not as privileged as yours, I could be wrong. I will provide you with background. I grew up on a council estate in the poorest part of the UK. My uncle was badly beaten by the Police during the miner's strike. For two whole years, my father was unemployed. I watched as he turned to alcoholism and as he was ostracized by family members for being unemployed. Depression is a bad thing, he got no help. I was allowed free school meals but, out of embarrassment, chose not to eat them.

My best friend turned to glue sniffing at the age of 15, and was dead by the age of 19. My other uncle's best friend shot himself dead at the age of 18 having left school 3 years earlier and having had no prospects of employment. Our opinions are formed by our life's experiences. I have grown up watching people discarded by the State. I have lived with the fallout, and I have sat and cried with my friend's mother so many times. Many people say that people like the ones I mention are not victims of circumstance, and that they rely too heavily on the State to help them. Many people may say each of us, at some stage, were burdens on society.

You happily throw labels at me, you indicate I am a Communist, a Corbynista, uneducated, unpatriotic, a liberal. Maybe a brief outline of the journey my life took in the early years will allow you to respect why I have the beliefs that I have. You imply that I want a state like Russia or North Korea. It is almost futile to debate with you, because you indulge yourself in labeling anyone who opposes you, as opposed to discussing why others have an opinion that you find distasteful and, perhaps, threatening to your own ideas for Utopia.

That you think North Korea care for citizens from cradle to grave indicates you are nothing more than a second rate Wind-up merchant. Poor effort.

The genie is out of the bottle with pensioners now expected to pay for the care that they hoped their taxes and NI bills were paying towards. Who knows what we will have to pay for next.

Maybe now is the time to allow euthanasia. If I ever suffer with dementia, I would prefer to die in my own way than to spend all my kid's inheritance on care bills for a living corpse.

having seen my late father spend his last 3 years in a care home--funded from his pensions and savings....

----i have come to the conclusion that care homes are simply---a business. self funded residents are helped to live as long as possible--all the while their incomes and savings can be bled dry.

the others--funded by local authorities--are simply a drain on public funds.

either way--its a huge industry employing many thousands---mostly on the legal minimum rate.

My grand parents were staunch labour voters their whole lives..My Nan worked in service in her younger years and then became a housewife whilst my Grandfather worked for ICI for 40 years..Never a day absent!
They lived an extremely happy life until my Nan got alzheimer's. Thats when everything went pear shaped..
Eventually she went into a local care home and my Grandad was then relieved of their life savings with the huge and unsustainable care home fees and 'extras' which resulted in him living his last years completely broke or as you say.."Bled dry".
So.. I take your point about care homes and how they are financed from personal/Gov pensions and personal savings.

Our neighbour here has one of the largest mansions that I have ever seen in the Philippines..This monstrosity is about 200 meters from a white sand beach and is protected by 12 ft high walls and an electric fence.. I`d say its worth in the region of 200 Million Pesos. (minimum)
I have never seen or met the owner as he is rarely there but have been very reliably informed that this holiday mansion is owned by the girlfriend of a British man that owns and runs care homes for the elderly in the U.K.

I can't find anything related to healthcare for migrants in the link you posted, just the Conservative manifesto which looks fairly decent. Did you post the wrong link?

It seems fairly obvious that any migrant, EU or otherwise, should not be able to just turn up at Heathrow and receive free healthcare having paid nothing into the system. It destroys the "welfare state" for those who have paid contributions into the NHS all their lives.

Read this on a blog years ago, still relevant........

Where to live when you retire!!! No NURSING HOME FOR me!!! No nursing home for us. We’ll be checking into a Holiday Inn!

With the average cost for a nursing home care costing £188.00 per day, there is a better way when we get old and too feeble. I’ve already checked on reservations at the Holiday Inn. For a combined long term stay discount and senior discount, it’s £59.23 per night. Breakfast is included, and some have happy hours in the afternoon.

That leaves £128.77 a day for lunch and dinner in any restaurant we want, or room service, laundry, gratuities and special TV movies. Plus, they provide a spa, swimming pool, a workout room, a lounge and washer-dryer, etc. Most have free toothpaste and razors, and all have free shampoo and soap. £5 worth of tips a day you’ll have the entire staff scrambling to help you.

Other perks:

• They treat you like a customer, not a patient.
• There’s a city bus stop out front, and seniors ride free.
• The handicap bus will also pick you up (if you fake a decent limp).
• To meet other nice people, call a church bus on Sundays.
• For a change of scenery, take the airport shuttle bus and eat at one of the nice restaurants there.
• While you’re at the airport, fly somewhere. Otherwise, the cash keeps building up.
• It takes months to get into decent nursing homes. Holiday Inn will take your reservation today.
• And you’re not stuck in one place forever — you can move from Inn to Inn, or even from city to city.
• Want to see Hawaii? They have Holiday Inn there too.
• TV broken? Light bulbs need changing? Need a mattress replaced? No problem… They fix everything, and apologise for the inconvenience.
• The Inn has a night security person and daily room service. The maid checks to see if you are ok. If not, they’ll call an ambulance… or the undertaker. (hahahaha….)
• If you fall and break a hip, Medicare will pay for the hip, and Holiday Inn will upgrade you to a suite for the rest of your life.
• And no worries about visits from family. They will always be glad to find you, and probably check in for a few days mini-vacation.

Also, if you “own” your home (ie its mortgaged to the bank) like I do, you can almost certainly rent it out for a lot more than your mortgage payments. In my case I pay £900 per month. The current going rate for my place as a rental is about £1800 per month, plus I would lose a lot of other expenses.

Even if I make only £1000 a month excess that still reduces my Holiday Inn bill to about £23 a night. Factor in all the stuff I’d sell (and at 71 I’ve got a LOT of stuff), the holiday costs I wouldn’t have (because Hawaii here I come) and the appreciation that will build up in the equity on my home which someone else will be paying for, and I’d make a profit and still have a lump sum in the house for when I can no longer “work out” or “invite chicks back to my room”.

I’ll let you know how it goes.

Slight problem with that. A lack of nurses.