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Opinion:Democracy is dying – and it’s startling how few people are worried

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Ethics' started by KeithAngel, Aug 9, 2017.

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  1. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    This repertoire of autocratic rule is of course not new; what makes it novel is its concerted and combined use by elected rulers – Putin, Erdoğan, Orbán, Trump, Maduro, Duterte in the Philippines and Modi in India – who are quite clearly engaged in a rapid, purposive and common project to hollow out democracy.

    Equally striking is that, right now, there is no major country prepared to set positive global standards for democracy.

    The tragedy today is that there is not a single democratic government on Earth prepared to defend that principle. Sure, they will issue notes of displeasure over the death of Liu Xiaobo or Maduro’s crackdown. But they refuse to restate the universality of the principles these actions violate. The fight for universal principles has to begin – as Hessel recognised – with individual people. We must keep restating to ourselves and those around us that our human rights are, as the 1948 declaration states, “equal and inalienable”. That means if one faraway kleptocrat steals them from his subjects, that is like stealing them from ourselves.

    Every democratic advance in history, from the English revolution of 1642 to the fall of Soviet communism in 1989, began when people understood the concept of rights they were born with, not to be granted or withdrawn. Today that means learning to think like a free human being, not an economic subject.

    https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ying-people-worried-putin-erdogan-trump-world
  2. walesrob
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    walesrob Administrator Staff Member

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  3. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    How ironic that you should quote an article criticising one of your Comrade Leader's heroes and whose regime has been endorsed in ringing tones by him, McDonnell, Abbott and Livingstone!

    This composite video was posted on Facebook yesterday and one of the videos has been authenticated by Human Rights Watch as depicting Maduro's thugs attacking and killing opponents to the regime. Warning: this video contains explicit scenes of violence.


    Given Livingstone's recent lament that Maduro didn't execute the "establishment elite" and the general fawning and expressions of support emanating from the hard left, I really fear for what my country may become should they ever be entrusted with power.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2017
  4. Drunken Max
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    Drunken Max Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Ypu wa
    None of them are clean, you want to talk about Theresa Mayhem and Turkey, Fox and Mayhem and any Middle Eastern desport of your choice. I actually think Corbyn is dangerous but this hypocritical witch hunt is actually distasteful. I can link you to videos of hands being chopped off and immolation if you like. Maybe a woman buried up to her neck and a truck full of aggregate emptying its contents on her? How about Yemenis blown to pieces by British arms? Lets compare the blood on our hands there with Corbyn not fully condemning a leader who it turns out is incompetent.

    One of the ingteresting things about many despots is that they are elected despots also
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  5. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    I agree, he is highly dangerous and should never be allowed to form a government.

    I'll take no lessons in correct behaviour from someone who can't be bothered to provide peoples' correct names, thank you.

    Are we legally responsible for the use of those arms? We also sell cars abroad, if we were to use your flawed logic then we would be responsible for every accident those cars cause.

    Corbyn makes no attempt to condemn Maduro - a man he called a friend quite recently. And his useful idiots including Abbott, McDonnell, Livingstone, (Paul) Mason and (Owen) Jones continually heap praise on him and his regime.

    Often by rigged elections. Or bumping-off your opponents, an expediency Ken Livingstone favours.
  6. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    Still here on the Politics threads.




    Or you as Duetres apolagist two faced hypocrit

    To stop Jeremy Corbyn, the British elite is prepared to abandon Brexit – first in its hard form and, if necessary, in its entirety. That is the logic behind all the manoeuvres, all the cant and all the mea culpas you will see mainstream politicians and journalists perform this week.

    And the logic is sound. The Brexit referendum result was supposed to unleash Thatcherism 2.0 – corporate tax rates on a par with Ireland, human rights law weakened, and perpetual verbal equivalent of the Falklands war, only this time with Brussels as the enemy; all opponents of hard Brexit would be labelled the enemy within.

    But you can’t have any kind of Thatcherism if Corbyn is prime minister. Hence the frantic search for a fallback line. Those revolted by the stench of May’s rancid nationalism will now find it liberally splashed with the cologne of compromise.

    Last summer, during the second leadership contest, it became clear that the forward trench of elite power runs through the middle of the Labour party. The Labour right, trained during the cold war for such trench warfare, fought bitterly to retain control, arguing that the elite would never allow the party to rule with a radical left leadership and programme.

    The moment the Labour manifesto was leaked, and support for it took off, was the moment the Labour right’s trench was overrun. They retreated to a second trench – not winning, with another leadership election to follow – but that did not exactly go well either.

    As to the third trench line – the tabloid press and its broadcasting echo chamber – this too proved ineffectual. More than 12 million people voted for a party stigmatised as “backing Britain’s enemies”, soft on terror, with “blood on its hands”.

    What we learned on Friday morning was how easily such networked, educated people can see through bullshit. How easily they organise themselves through tactical voting websites; how quickly they are prepared to unite around a new set of basic values once someone enunciates them with cheerfulness and goodwill, as Corbyn did.

    The high Conservative vote, and some signal defeats for Labour in the areas where working class xenophobia is entrenched, indicate this will be a long, cultural war. A war of position, as Gramsci called it, not one of manoeuvre.

    But in that war, a battle has been won. The Tories decided to use Brexit to smash up what’s left of the welfare state, and to recast Britain as the global Singapore. They lost. They are retreating behind a human shield of Orange bigots from Belfast.

    The left’s next move must eschew hubris; it must reject the illusion that with one lightning breakthrough we can envelop the defences of the British ruling class and install a government of the radical left.

    The first achievable goal is to force the Tories back to a position of single-market engagement, under the jurisdiction of the European court of justice, and cross-party institutions to guide the Brexit talks. But the real prize is to force them to abandon austerity.

    A Tory party forced to fight the next election on a programme of higher taxes and increased spending, high wages and high public investment would signal how rapidly Corbyn has changed the game. If it doesn’t happen; if the Conservatives tie themselves to the global kleptocrats instead of the interests of British business and the British people, then Corbyn is in Downing Street.

    Either way, the accepted common sense of 30 years is over.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...my-corbyn-defeat-ruling-elite-antonio-gramsci
  7. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    Putin, Erdoğan, Orbán, Trump, Maduro, Duterte in the Philippines and Modi in India


    Not Ironic at all we are not all stuck in a monasybilic rut Mark
  8. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    Never be allowed is a matter for the British Electorate and 12 million plus (and growing) dissagree:)

    Or perhaps Moralyif thats not an alien concept I expect you would have happily sold Zyklon B to the third Riech for delousing if there was a £ to be made
  9. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    There is no depth to which you will not plumb in your quest to demonstrate what a thoroughly nasty little man you really are. I know you read this forum and particularly this section so you should know that (Polish Catholic) members of my family were murdered by the Nazis, very likely using Zyklon B. You also know that my surname is not Tesch, nor is it either Peters or Heerdt - the Nazis who invented, manufactured and supplied Zyklon B to Himmler for use in the death camps.

    Go and crawl back under your rock you despicable excuse for a human being.
  10. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    I said that I would not comment on politics but as a point of information may I just draw attention to the relative un-importance of Corporation Tax in Britain.

    "Total UK government receipts are forecast to be £716.5 billion in 2016–17, or 36.9% of UK GDP. This is equivalent to roughly £13,500 for every adult in the UK, or £10,900 per person.4 Not all of this revenue comes from taxes: taxes as defined in the National Accounts are forecast to raise £665.1 billion in 2016–17, with the remainder provided by surpluses of public sector industries, rent from state-owned properties and so on. Table 1 shows the composition of UK government revenue. Income tax, National Insurance contributions and VAT are easily the largest sources of revenue for the government, together accounting for almost 60% of total tax revenue. Duties and other indirect taxes constitute around 10% of current receipts, with fuel duties of £27.6 billion the largest component. The only other substantial category is company taxes, which come to 10% of current receipts, predominantly corporation tax and business rates."

    Source here:

    https://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn09.pdf

    As someone who has been involved in corporation tax issues, the reason corporation tax is such a small part of the overall tax take is that it is immensely complicated and practically a matter of "theology" - "what was the intention of the company when it did this?"
  11. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    I rather agree with this article. The world that we all grew up in owed an immense debt to Eleanor Roosevelt.

    "No man is an iland, intire of it selfe; every man is a peece of the Continent, a part of the maine; if a clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as well as if a Mannor of thy friends or of thine owne were; any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee...."
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  12. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    I post what I think is a rather interesting opinion piece and you immediatly ignoring the unsavoury caracters and aguement of the piece go into Jeremy attack mode which since I believe he is a pretty straight forward guy will always get a rebust responce.

    He has condemmened ALL Violence but like the rest of Murdocks failed attack dog media isnt enough for you, I challenged you earlier to tell me what Ms May has said silence.

    I find your lack of moral compass as sad as it is irritating you have compared Jeremy,s leadership to Hitler,s Nazis

    hitler.PNG

    I only state the logical consequence of your position similar to every profiteer of someone elses misery or death



    You can defend Duertes death squads or untill recently deny them all you want it speaks to your caracture

    I know your name you advertised it yourself for a good long time in your avatar unless you were only kidding perhaps your name is plummer who cares

    If you dont like the truth being reflected back at you think about your insulting words or better yet keep your promise to Paul and stay off Politics and especially ethics since in Filipino parlence you appear to be "out of stock":)

    P.S. I expect you were at Hillsbourough to
  13. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

  14. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    The question is where do you stop, I agree with this speaker in many ways, but base ideas end up drawing a base response and ultimately that leads to violence and war, be it civil war, multi state or international.

    When the ability to debate and discuss is so compromised by the nature of the topic, it may well be that there is no other recourse than violence.

    This may well be a fundamentally human thing it may be that sometimes we have to beat the sh*t out of each other in order to progress, I just count myself lucky that for the vast majority of my own life the discussion has been more or less amiable, we didn't get to the point of wanting to kill each other.

    The thing is there is nothing in history anywhere that says that a good result for the majority of people is in any way the expected result of any argument, there is nothing to stop us being led to a thousand years of misery by those we imagine represent our views.

    Rome was technologically and culturally sophisticated for its time, it fell, Greek civilisation fell, civilisations fall that is the lesson of history and we risk the same fate if we don't start taking the long view, something we are not renowned for doing in the west.

    And I haven't even touched on the resources issue which is fundamental for a technological world.
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  15. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    Resources

    David Graeber: debt and what the government doesn't want you to know

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