Heres an easy to follow guide for newbies to the Singh Route aimed at Ireland but gives you the how to for any country in a simple form http://www.scribd.com/doc/231192464/Surinder-Singh-for-Newbies
Has not this MO been over taken by ;- /www.gov.uk/government/publications/entering-the-uk-as-the-holder-of-an-article-10-residence-card/entering-the-uk-as-the-holder-of-an-article-10-residence-card
Not overtaken John in order to get the article 10/20 in for example another European Country with your non -EU family will need entry clearance if a visa national and the EU would need to be working at least 91 days in order to stand a good chance of successfully returning to there country of origin under article 9 I agree that once you have done this and have the card no Family Permit is required but you would be wise to carry long term proof of your established residence etc of course in your case if you have PR that of itself would do.
I have not put it to the test, as British Airways still say they require a visa and will not budge, so they would not her board. I am hoping to hear of some accounts where it has worked out.
Its working widely John and BA where certainly told with all the others back in April did you talk to them directly and recently?
Hello everyone, how is it going? Once again thanks to everyone for the information on this thread. I haven't been about as much as I liked, as I have been pretty busy working, and waiting...waiting...waiting on Immigration issues to be resolved. I'm learning a lot. It's...fascinating... It took over six months to renounce my British citizenship. It appears that delays have just become commonplace in the process; I suspect a lack of funding, a complete lack of accountability and the prevailing political climate to be responsible. Noone who processes the application can be contacted. There is a call centre full of lovely Geordies that are nice but they have no powers - they are basically there to get you to urinate off. Until you go over 6 months, nothing can be done. Then, and only then, can you get someone to contact you in relation to the application. They call you. No names or numbers. I'm surprised they don't wipe your memory afterwards, like the Men In Black. The key reason for going beyond six months was that they failed to realise that my place of birth, County Fermanagh, is actually in the United Kingdom. Yes, that's right - British Immigration do not know their own borders and territory. Comforting thought, isn't it? So they wrote me a letter asking to provide proof that I was British and not Irish so I could be considered to be Irish alone. Of course, if I was Irish and not British why would I start the process and pay the money and wait for ages if I wasn't already Irish, as I would have nothing to renounce?!? And yet many Brits make fun of the Irish for being a bit 'tickh...it is a good job that the letter arrived the day my flight was leaving for Hong Kong, as they gave me short notice to cancel the application and just keep the money. It is also a good job that I kept hold of an old British passport which I was able to send them, as they couldn't argue with that one (they haven't sent it back, mind). I felt like printing a map of the UK and drawing an arrow to my birthplace in the UK in crayon, and writing on "Born here, you dummies!" but I didn't want to take risks as perhaps the MIB don't possess a sense of humour. Mind you, at this point, neither did I. I felt both furious and lucky. Good old Home Office chaps then informed me by email that it had been posted on the 24th Dec. It hadn't. I got a caseworker calling me on the 5th January to deal with my complaint, not knowing anything about my case, not answering any points I made in my recorded letter of complaint and then she started to argue with me that the documents were still 'in the post'. As we were talking, an email came to me from her department saying that the documents were processed on the 24th December, and posted on the 4th January. When informed of this, her parting comment was 'Well then". The certificate came through the post on the 6th. So, I am 100% Paddy Power now. I still want England to well at football, Norn Iron to win the Euros and Ireland to thrash everyone in the 6 Nations. I still want Derby to stop shooting themselves in the foot and actually win promotion. I don't feel any different. I don't think it matters (well, certainly not to me). (incidentally, my full complaint has not been replied to. I am not holding my breath...) I married my wife in Hong Kong in December. Manila was just too unreliable and, although HK was expensive, it was reassuring to know that there would be no hitches, jumping through hoops or no 'making it up as you go along' behavior. Disneyland was fun, and we had a great time over the two weeks. I have certainly no regrets about marriage and I know she is the right person for me, and she feels the same. I never believed in the idea of soul mates, but I think I kind of do now. Our wedding day was funny - after we married, I took her for a pint in an English pub. She drank it like a veteran, but was wiped out for the day and the night! I don't think drinking is for her, haha, which is ok by me. I am hoping to bring her over to this lovely warm country as soon as the wonderful people in the Embassy decide. We applied for the EEA Family Permit on Jan 8th. We were turned down on Jan 15th. Being an EEA national living in the UK married to a non-EEA woman, I thought a lot of what had to be supplied under the conventional non-EEA to British living in Britain was not applicable, so I went off the website guidance for things that HAD to be supplied. They turned us down under section 7 and 13 of the 2006 Immigration (EEA Area) Great Blah Blah - you know the one I mean, right? They wanted photos and convos and so on - I am still not sure if they need that in this case, but no probs if they do, being with a Filipina means an addiction to social media and all of that is there (although editing over a year's long messenger conversation which amounts to 171,000 sent messages (and probably well over a million words, or a book 14 times longer than the first Harry potter - that's a bit daunting!) OK so that is all perhaps understandable, and a veteran of all this might laugh at me being naive not to have made provision for this. Fair dos. If I was applying as a British man - of course I would have. But the Section 13 rebuttal was a different thing. They require my wife to have medical insurance, and for me to prove savings etc, and want more financial documents. I sent some payslips which prove income and prove that I pay National Insurace contributions. By law, my wife is entitled to the NHS and the £200 payments and all of that polava do not count in such an EEA case. Of course the unnamed official writing the letter doesn't say what a sufficient amount of savings would be. He (or she) has also not looked at my gross earnings since April, and calculated my income that way. Which is on or slightly below the 18,600 anyway, not that it should matter. I thought all of this would be obvious. Clearly noone in this process does obvious. The letter says due care has been put into the consideration of the application. I think they just flung a standard copy and paste at it "No photos - married a month ago - NEXT!". So I am currently writing a letter as part of the next application, which will go to someone a little higher up. I am trying not to sound too argumentative (as I am aware maybe I can come over that way at times cough sorry cough!), but I could use a little quoting from relevant European legislature as to what can or can not be provided. I really don't want my wife to be declined this time, so it's a case of either playing their game fully (in which case I might be saying that I should be required to provide evidence of savings which I HAVE SPENT ON GETTING MARRIED YOU PEN PUSHING SO AND SOS! - deep breath and relax) or going to the other extreme and submitting nothing that is not legally required (which I must check and check again), or a balance between the two. Anyway, if anyone can come up with good old quotes to help, ideas or just anything then I would appreciate it. I want to send the next application as soon as possible - I am not appealing, as that can take 8 weeks plus. We've missed her birthday, now I want her here for Valentines' Day and the HT holiday. I am looking forward an end to this, and her eating rice in the kitchen as she's a total rice addict - and then me passing on my knowledge to others wanting to do the same thing. Until they change the rules again, I guess! Long letter. I think you'll probably believe me about long messenger conversations now!
Andy a very interesting report (I will read it again later when I can give in my full attention). . I wish you well with your continuing efforts.
Advice to ECO,s the visa handbook for European apps page 11 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...e/488449/Qualified_Persons_v3.0_ext_clean.pdf Regulation 7 What the Directive says Article 7 Right of residence for more than three months 1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a period of longer than three months if they: (a) are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member State; or (Worker) (b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State; or (Self Sufficient) (c) — are enrolled at a private or public establishment, accredited or financed by the host Member State on the basis of its legislation or administrative practice, for the principal purpose of following a course of study, including vocational training; and (Student) — have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State and assure the relevant national authority, by means of a declaration or by such equivalent means as they may choose, that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence; or (d) are family members accompanying or joining a Union citizen who satisfies the conditions referred to in points (a), (b) or (c). 2. The right of residence provided for in paragraph 1 shall extend to family members who are not nationals of a Member State, accompanying or joining the Union citizen in the host Member State, provided that such Union citizen satisfies the conditions referred to in paragraph 1(a), (b) or (c). 3. For the purposes of paragraph 1(a), a Union citizen who is no longer a worker or self-employed person shall retain the status of worker or self-employed person in the following circumstances: (a) he/she is temporarily unable to work as the result of an illness or accident; (b) he/she is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after having been employed for more than one year and has registered as a job-seeker with the relevant employment office; (c) he/she is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after completing a fixed-term employment contract of less than a year or after having become involuntarily unemployed during the first twelve months and has registered as a job-seeker with the relevant employment office. In this case, the status of worker shall be retained for no less than six months; (d) he/she embarks on vocational training. Unless he/she is involuntarily unemployed, the retention of the status of worker shall require the training to be related to the previous employment. 4. By way of derogation from paragraphs 1(d) and 2 above, only the spouse, the registered partner provided for in Article 2(2)(b) and dependent children shall have the right of residence as family members of a Union citizen meeting the conditions under 1(c) above. Article 3(2) shall apply to his/her dependent direct relatives in the ascending lines and those of his/her spouse or registered partner. Or is the word that doesnt seem to be understood by Embassy staff they should read their own hand book On thia all that can be required is evidence of Identity of both Evidence of Marriage (certificate) Evidence of EU right of abode (Worker employment contract) And just maybe in cases where the UK resident has resided for more than 90 days address (although there is no legal requirement beyond the first three) No Savings No Proofs of Relationship No English Tests No TB No Private Health Cover The Home Office is tasked with setting an example to the Nation of obeying the law why should citizens comply when it does not apply legal requirements freely entered into to itself that couldnt be simpler to understand.
Marriages of convenience Under the regulations a spouse and civil partner are defined as a person who is not a party to a marriage or civil partnership of convenience . Recital 28 of Directive 2004/38/EC (the Directive) defines a marriage of convenience as a relationship contracted for the solepurpose of enjoying the right of free movement and residence. If you suspecta marriage is one of convenience, it is open to the Secretary of State to investigate individual cases.This may include:asking the applicant and EEA sponsor for further information inviting the applicant and EEA sponsor for interviewarranging a home visit by the immigration compliance and enforcement(ICE) team Burdenof proof An applicant must show they are the family member of an EEA national. This would usually come from a valid marriage certificate. If you suspect the marriage is one of convenience, it is for the Secretary of State to prove this. The national courts must verify the existence of abuse in individual cases if there is an appeal. Standard of proof Any evidence must meet civil law standard ( which is the balance of probabilities). Unlike incriminal cases you do not need to prove beyond all reasonable doubt before you refuse an application. You must consider the balance of probabilities, and af ter looking at all the evidence decide if it is more likely than not the marriage or civil partnership is one of convenience. Only once you have done this is a refusal to issue documentation to the spouse or civil partner of a qualified EEA national justified. This is because they do not meet the definition in regulation 2 of theregulations . You must refuse the application if there has been a criminal investigation into the marriage or civil partnership that resulted in a conviction for any of the parti es involved. Because of this compelling evidence the marriage can be considered invalid. If no convictions have been brought against the parties involved but you suspect the marriage or civil partnership is one of convenience you must apply the stage test his page tells you about the first stage of the marriages of convenience test to determine if a marriage or civil partnership involving applicants claiming to be direct family members of a European Economic Area (EEA) national is genuine . Factors which may indicate a marriage or civil partnership of convenience The factors listed below are grounds for doubting the reasons for entering into a marriage or civil partnership and give you cause to make further investigations. However without further evidence, they are not, in themselves, proof the marriage or civil partnership is one of convenience.Even if the factors are present,later enquiries may show the marriage to be genuine. "Home Office wont reveal factors" If none of the above factors exist then you must accept the marriage is not one of convenience and the direct family member is related to the EEA national sponsor as claimed. If any of the above factors exist then you must proceed to stage two of the marriages of convenience test. See related link: Marriages of convenience test – Stage2 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/464872 /Direct_Family_Members_v3_0.pdf page 54 I would be reapplying with a strongly worded cover letter pointing out the points demonstrating the "lack of carefull consideration" I would set out the length of time we had known each other culminating in marriage and point out that if getting married is the trigger for there unresonable suspision then all who apply are guilty, additionally I might say that giving up my British Citizenship is a measure of my commitment to the marriage and that if they have any evidence of fraudulent behaviour on either part they should produce it as the burden of proof falls on the HO not the couple and that failure to issue an entry permit will incur a claim for distress and consequential loss etc .
3. Documents you must provide You must provide: a valid passport 1 passport-sized colour photograph evidence of your relationship to your EEA family member, eg marriage certificate, civil partnership certificate, birth certificate or proof that you’ve lived together for 2 years if unmarried your family member’s valid passport or national identity card (or a certified copy if you can’t provide the original) proof of your dependency if you’re dependent on your EEA family member EEA family members You must show that your EEA family member has a permanent right of residence or is one of the following if they’ve been in the UK for more than 3 months: working, eg employment contract, wage slips, letter from employer self-employed, eg contracts, invoices, or audited accounts with bank statements, and paying tax and National Insurance studying, eg letter from the school, college or university financially independent, eg bank statements Your family member must have full health insurance (comprehensive sickness insurance) if they’re studying or financially independent. https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/documents-you-must-provide It is good practice never to give information you are not required to ,once you do you have agreed to widen the scope of enquirey
On European Applicationsd this one should be ignored unless you want to turn it into a quasi settlement visa note at the begining it says " It is not a list of documents that you must submit. We do not expect you to provide all of the documents listed below; it is for you to decide which documents are most relevant to your application." https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...chment_data/file/261446/eea-family-permit.pdf
All this is brilliant Keith. I think I have more than enough to finish our application now. Thank you! I will let you know how it progresses
