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Tories cut security support for antiquated Computer systems?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Ethics' started by Bluebird71, May 13, 2017.

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  1. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    So what do you propose? That no money is spent? That systems are purely left without support in the interim?
  2. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    As you have me on ignore, you are not in a position to judge what I have written!

    If you had read what I wrote, I said that the Tories cannot be directly blamed, but it is quite damning that we keep getting stories like this and the "Humanitarian Crisis" reports, and the long waiting lists reports, and the cancellation of cancer operations reports, and the doctors and nurses striking reports, and the nurses having to use foot banks reports. Just where does the Government start taking responsibility?
  3. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    I don't believe I said that the Government was the reason the contract was cancelled. What I believe is that the NHS is in the midst of a funding crisis and, as a result, are making decisions like the one not to renew the support contract.
  4. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    How do you know Avira would have protected the NHS in this case?
  5. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    I watched a documentary about Stuxnet a while back. Deeply concerning.
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  6. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I am 100% confident the NHS will never be privatised, its totally irrelevant who is Health Secretary as they only remain in that position for a short period of time.

    Its the peoples NHS and no Government will ever touch it, to do so means them losing the next election, and that I am 100% sure of too.

    No, this rubbish about the NHS being privatised has been running for the last 20 years that I know of and will still be being talked about in another 20 years :)
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 2
  7. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Sure, you can't even ask the question these days see here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/foi-statistics-on-agency-spend-in-the-nhs because they don't actually record the spend.

    You can be as certain as you want but if left to the current government and its future cohorts one day everything in the NHS will be privately supplied to a publically owned institution at rapacious rates.
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  8. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Billions and Billions of pounds has been wasted on the NHS IT system in the past, money lost due to grandiose ideas and bad management.

    Guardian - Abandoned NHS IT system has cost £10bn so far

    BBC - NHS IT system one of 'worst fiascos ever', say MPs
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  9. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

  10. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    He doesn't, nor do I, however it likely spread through some kind of remote procedure weakness, at least one security guy reckoned that it was a known vulnerability that had been patched in windows 10 recently although there is no information out there that it had anything to do with this vulnerability identified last month https://www.cnet.com/news/new-zero-day-vulnerability-identified-in-all-versions-of-ie/ and I believe that problem has been patched already.

    Nor does it appear to have anything to do with this issue which has also been patched already http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39856391
  11. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    The tendering system for software is rigged in favour of giant consultancies, smaller home grown firms don't get a look in even when they have a great track record, as a result you get people in government departments that don't really understand what they want listening to consultants that don't really understand what they need, I have seen this first hand the biggest costs appear when the change requests start to come in and by that time it is too late.

    Because of the incompetence of the government contract negotiators they always let these companies off with contract extension clauses that are built in at the start by the suppliers who know damn fine that the government does not know what it wants and will change and change and change the requirement at enormous expense and to the fantastic benefit of the suppliers who just rake it in.
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  12. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    I've done some reading and the exploit used a weakness in SMB (System Message Block) and it was patched by Microsoft in March, it was indeed a remote execution vulnerability so this thing has indeed spread as a worm.

    It has landed on systems via email then exploited the network weakness to spread, so server systems will likely have been at risk too although I would guess only static files stored on the servers, databases would have been harder to attack.

    There have been flaws in SMB for years, at one time I had a legitimate reason to consider using one of them for customer support purposes but I never did, that was about 17 years back, it is a shame that software features which could be a great benefit to people are so often a curse because of the evil bast***ds that want to screw the rest of us.

    And before anyone casts stones at Microsoft there are likely still plenty of zero-day security flaws in SAMBA as well that are not yet public or not yet discovered, software is complex far more complex than most people imagine even the simple stuff can be far more complex than you might ever imagine.

    I don't think we should be mystifying it with the association to the NSA, I think this might just be something that the NSA knew about and had in their reserves but it is not so different from many other vulnerabilities that have been discovered over the years, Stuxnet however was on a totally different level from this attack.

    https://blog.malwarebytes.com/threat-analysis/2017/05/the-worm-that-spreads-wanacrypt0r/
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
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  13. Scotschap16
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    Scotschap16 Well-Known Member

    Tim - you may care to Google about Andrew Lansley's disastrous NHS reorganisation - which cost the taxpayer billions and made it easier for private companies to take over services. The universally respected Kings Fund amongst others producing a highly critical report

    The NHS in England is being starved of funds - most health authorities are in deficit and being asked to make further, unachievable, cuts. Outcomes in terms of waiting times are slipping.

    If you saw Jeremy Hunt getting a roasting by Andrew Marr last weekend I very much doubt any neutral observer would be left with the impression the the NHS was in good shape and heading for better times.

    The related social care system is teetering on the edge of collapse - no one really denies this. Just look at the amount of private nursing / care homes that are handing back local authority contracts as they can't afford to run them (and as we know they pay minimum wages already).

    The cuts to the social welfare system coming down the pipeline will reduce the incomes of millions of already struggling families - mostly the "working poor". This will inevitably put greater pressure on the education and social work services - leaving the third sector trying to pick up the pieces.

    The English education system is also being starved of funds - teachers are getting out because of pressure and the school estate is crumbling. Parents are paying for basic things like textbooks and jotters - things that should be paid for through general and local taxation. And let's not forget the ideological and dangerous obsession with free schools - leeching scarce resources from budgets in some areas where there is already sufficient provision. And now May wants to increase Grammar Schools - almost universally criticised (including previously by that well known Trotskyite David Cameron and the former head of OFSTED) as socially divisive and failing millions.

    The cuts in England impact spend up here in Scotland - through the Barnet formula consequentials. While the Scottish Government works hard to insulate the population insofar as it can but difficult choices are having to be made.

    It is for these reasons - and several more - that has turned me from a Labour voting unionist into a reluctant Scottish nationalist.

    Forgive me but when I hear the robotic Theresa May talk about wanting to help "hard working families etc" it makes me want to vomit - she couldn't give a flying feck about ordinary folk....she looks after the Class who put her there and she'll do their bidding like every previous Tory leader.

    But at least the Masters of Fox Hunts will be pleased - ready to smear the blood of the fox on the foreheads of the young followers as they witness their first bloodthirsty kill.

    Jesus H Christ - what a country!

    Gerry

    NHS 'dangerously short of nurses' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39890235
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
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  14. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    WTF are you smoking Gerry?

    Why do you consider Foxes (vermin) as being more important than factory farmed Chickens, or the millions of animals slaughtered by the Inhumane, Medieval religious rites of halal meat production.

    Does the "commercial" aspect make it OK?

    Foxes are not all cute and cuddly like Basil Brush!
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
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  15. Scotschap16
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    Scotschap16 Well-Known Member

    Well aware of the issues surrounding foxes in the countryside - and their predatory habits (i.e. displaying natural behaviours).

    There are legal means of pest control and as I'm sure you're well aware (not least because of several prosecutions) those who think it a "sport" to chase an animal all over the countryside with a pack of hounds to exhaustion - often venturing onto land without permission (illegal) - masquerade as genuine pest control operatives.

    You'll know of cases where the fox has run to ground and then been dug out - not for lawful dispatch by a trained marksman allowable in law - but so fat men in ridiculous red coats can get their perverted jollies watching the hounds tear the wretched animal from limb to limb.

    I'm no romantic - my job is in agricultural policy - but I think Oscar Wilde got it right when he described the hunting of foxes as "The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable."

    T May's plans to allow a free vote on the issue is just her paying her Class back -- the Countryside Alliance must be salivating at the thought of getting their treasured "sport" back. Utterly contemptible.
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  16. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    It is the norm for massive employers like the NHS to employ agency workers/contractors on a regular or full time basis.
  17. Bluebird71
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    Bluebird71 Well-Known Member

    I've read Gerry's post, and not sure why you think that he thinks that foxes are more important than chickens. I've had similar treatment on this forum where someone was insulted because of an incorrect conclusion (or confirmation bias) he jumped to, using it as an excuse to "ignore" me whilst continuing to make barbed comments about my posts.
  18. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    If it were Cameron promising the free vote, you would have a valid point. Theresa May is of 'common stock'.
  19. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    We have more to worry about in this country than a few bloody foxes, who cares whether they are hunted or not, I certainly don't?

    Animals are being slaughtered in a inhumane way every day, behind closed doors away from media attention.

    I take it you don't subscribe to the cock fighting channel when in the Philippines :)
  20. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Change the avatar please Bluebird old boy, you know I don't like that one :)

    Picture of Timmy Farron banging his tambourine perhaps?
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