WARNING: Spain will not issue visas to Filipino wives of Brits

A brief read of that site indicates that applicants could have problems from some but maybe not all Schengen countries. Those mentioned that have given inexplicable refusals are the Dutch, French, Spanish and Swedish consuls.

Given Spain's anti-Brit sentiment over Gibraltar and its recent intense lobbying of President Tusk to get a veto over The Rock, I'm tempted to wonder if it's Chris' nationality that is the real problem here and they were using Melody as a pawn ...

Its a very good point, I would like to think that law is above any land disputes between the UK and Spain.

It makes me think twice about spain. One of my good friends and her family travelled there and were subjected to humiliation/discrimination - waiters even the manager refused to serve them in a fancy cafe/restaurant in madrid. At one point they were called 'indio' or the old slang used by the spaniards to filipinos 200 yrs ago (the funny and ironic part was that my friend's family can trace their ancestry directly to spain)

Dont get me wrong, I've got a lot of good friends from spain. But in some ways, i think, they havent washed off the superiority complex over pinoys.

Hence, i think the double standards they have applied on your case.

I read through the comments myself. Many of them were standard Schengen visa applications - tourist visas - and that in itself is a lottery (and a fundraiser for the consulates and embassies). Unless there is a compelling reason to return to the country of origin, if they don't like the cut of your jib, they refuse you on the grounds that you can't prove that you'll leave - an unjustifiable and immensly unfair reason for refusal in my opinion, and one which is difficult to defend.

Clearly they didn't like the cut of my jib (or Melody's) because right from the start they were obstructive. On Melody's first visit, they turned her away because she didn't have a copy of my birth certificate. I have still to receive any explanation why they needed to see that. I provided notarised copies of my passport, residence card, NIE number, empadronamiento (registration with the local authority), SIP (health) card, rental contract, self-employment registration, and my social security registration. Eight forms of ID.

I wrote a letter explaining that she had been on the bus for ten hours overnight from Ilocos Norte, and couldn't simply 'pop back in' on the following Friday. They agreed to see her on the following Wednesday, and that's when they interrogated her in minute detail about me and about whether we owned property together etc - questions related to an application for a Family Reunification visa which we didn't want and which the Visa Code specifically states, we cannot be made to apply for. Naturally we appealed against this decision and I wrote a massive email explaining or refuting the reasons given for refusal, and asking why they had seemingly changed our application to one for residence, again, prohibited under the visa code.

COM2009-313 (final) - a document that clarifies the rights of family members and instructs consular staff on how to deal with them.

2.2.
2.2.1.
Entry and residence of third country family members

Entry visas
As provided in Article 5(2), Member States may require third country family members moving with or joining an EU citizen to whom the Directive applies to have an entry visa. Such family members have not only the right to enter the territory of the Member State, but also the right to obtain an entry visa18. This distinguishes them from other third country nationals, who have no such right.

Third country family members should be issued as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure with a free of charge short-term entry visa. By analogy with Article 23 of the Visa Code19 the Commission considers that delays of more than four weeks are not reasonable. The authorities of the Member States should guide the family members as to the type of visa they should apply for, and they cannot require them to apply for long-term, residence or family reunification visas. Member States must grant such family members every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Member States may use premium call lines or services of an external company to set up an appointment but must offer the possibility of direct access to the consulate to third country family members.

As the right to be issued with an entry visa is derived from the family link with the EU citizen, Member States may require only the presentation of a valid passport and evidence of the family link (and also dependency, serious health grounds, durability of partnerships,
where applicable).

No additional documents, such as a proof of accommodation, sufficient
resources, an invitation letter or return ticket, can be required

Hold on a sec there, old chap. For some reason I assumed that you were applying for a visa for Melody to come to Spain and live with you there which, as your wife, she is perfectly and legally entitled to do. The correct visa for this is the Family Reunification visa which, according to VFS in Manila, the Maltese Embassy and the Expatriots Department of the Maltese government (which issues Residence Permits) is the only type of visa that permits non-EU spouses (and immediate family members, eg including parents and children). I know this because when we applied for my wife's and son's visas, my wife got a Family Reunification Visa and my son was issued with a Family Visit visa in error. The Maltese Embassy recognised its mistake immediately, confirmed that our two year-old could not settle in Malta with that visa and exchanged it for the correct visa as a matter of urgency. The nice and helpful lady at the Expatriots Department here in Gozo noticed the original Family Visit visa in my son's Passport and commended us for ensuring he held the correct type.

Now I am confused. I know you eventually were successful in getting Melody's Schengen visa issued by Malta, so what visa does she hold? Family Visit or tourist visit?

Not that any of this excuses the Spaniards' treatment of your wife in Manila but it would explain why they questioned her "in minute detail" - they must have assumed that she had mistakenly ticked the wrong box on her application and were assuming that she really needed a Family Reunification one. But then to refuse her that is totally inexcusable.

As can clearly be seen on the final resolution of our application, the visa refusal is for one of family reunification. (reagrupacion familiar)






This is the sworn statement which raises the points on which they refused the application



Our lawyer viewed this statement as pretty damning evidence against them. When you compare it to what was supposed to happen - provide ID for both of us, the wedding certificate and a letter from me explaining that Melody will be joining me in Spain, it becomes quite obvious that they have not complied with instructions on how to deal with family members of an EU citizen.

We received this email in September 2004 which (as well as the 'sworn statement' above) states that the marriage is not registered in Britain.



"the Spanish law requires that visa applicants of EU spouses whose marriages were celebrate in a foreign country, must have their marriages registered and recognized by the Consular Office of their respective EU country in the foreign country."

The following is from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, reporting on a meeting regarding this requirement between themselves and the Spanish Foreign Ministry.

MEETING WITHMINISTERIO DE ASUNTOS EXTERIORES
Monday 8th February, 11.00am

REDACTED

We arranged this second meeting with the MFA with a view to eliminating the standard
ORSU note on foreign marriages that Spanish Embassies are requesting all over the world
when a non-EU national married to a British national outside of Spain or the UK tries to
obtain a residence visa for Spain.

REDACTED began by explaining that the note is currently being issued by British Consulates
in these third countries, at our request, as they are not aware of Spanish immigration
regulations. REDACTED said that the FCO had told us that the generic letter does not really
have any legal validity, and that they would like to stop issuing it.

REDACTED reiterated what REDACTED had said in our previous meeting, that if the couple
can provide their local marriage certificate then that should be sufficient and REDACTED
wasn’t sure why Spanish Embassies were asking for a letter from the British Consulate as
well. REDACTED stated again that it was probably only asked for in cases where the visa
officers were not convinced that the marriage was genuine from the other documents
submitted.

REDACTED reminded them that it was impossible to register foreign marriages in the UK, and
this seems to be the crux of the problem in many cases – simply that the marriage was not
registered. REDACTED asked if we should just send a Nota Verbale to be circulated to
Spanish Embassies worldwide. REDACTED mentioned that we always make it clear to
customers that we have no influence over Spanish immigration policy, and they have every
right to refuse someone a visa.

REDACTED agreed that all we need to do is send a Nota Verbale, as REDACTED suggested,
reiterating that it is not possible to register foreign marriages in the UK, and stating that
British Consulates worldwide will no longer be issuing the note on foreign marriages for visa
applications. REDACTED said this information would then get incorporated into the Spanish
Embassies’ “manual de visados”.

10th Feb 2016

Of course it loses some of its context when so much is redacted, but it's plain to see that the Spanish Foreign Ministry believes that a marriage certificate is all that should be required. They also state that any refusal must be due to doubts about the veracity of the marriage.

These doubts stem back to the sworn statement, where Melody was railroaded into applying for a Family Reunification visa. Because she could not answer their line of questioning to their satisfaction, they concluded that ours was a marriage of convenience, or so it appears because they never actually came out and said that.

I sent in a huge email, breaking down the sworn statement into its bullet points and answering each one, and reiterating that she had the right as a family member to a visa. Clearly, because of their erroneous requirement for registration by Britain of our marriage, this could not result in a visa either.

It's clear to me that they have no real grasp on how to deal with a family member of a UK citizen resident in Spain, and rather than seek advice, made it up as they went along. Obstinate refusal to admit they made a mistake meant that they piled layer upon layer of BS in an attempt to continue to deny us.

Guys, I'm sorry for the length of these posts, but I'm still foaming at the mouth about this, almost a year after Melody arrived. Had I been in Manila when all this was going on, I probably would have done something foolish.

Melody is/was entitled to a 90-day visa which would be the family visit visa as you have put it, and an entry visa as is detailed within the Directive. Her application for residency was unaffected by anything regarding the visa. She arrived with a Maltese issued single visit 90 day tourist visa.

Once across the Schengen border we encountered nothing but helpfulness, and the residency application went as smoothly as we could have hoped. Melody is now resident in Spain as a family member of an EU citizen.

Had they looked at the documentation which we provided, they should have issued her with a 90-day visa. It should have been free of charge, with no requirement to apply for residency within that period (or during the application).

She also can exercise her right of residency, afforded by 2004/38/EC and is free to apply as my family member, and the type of visa on which she arrived is not relevant.

Article 7
Right of residence for more than three months
1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a period of longer than three months if they:
(a) are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member State; or
(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State; or
(c) –( irrelevant)
(d) are family members accompanying or joining a Union citizen who satisfies the conditions referred to in points (a), (b) or (c).

Because I am self-employed and paying my way, Melody has the right of residence. We simply filled in the forms for her and she was issued her residence card.

@Markham - Just to make a point regarding your post - because of the Spanish insistence on registration of our marriage, the only solution available for us is to bring Melody over, and obtain a Certificate of Foreign Marriage Recognition from the British Consulate in Alicante and then apply for residency. It is only available in Spain, and only when both parties are present.

This is why we could not apply in Manila for a residential visa. Without her coming to Spain, we could not satisfy their requirement for recognition of the marriage. Without recognition of the marriage, they would not issue a Family Visit visa.

Obviously, something was wrong in their interpretation of the laws, which placed us in an impossible situation.

Thank you for the clarification, Chris. It would appear that you and Melody have benefited from Spanish incompetence and/or their inability to interpret the Schengen rules. From everything I have read and have been told, Melody's application for residency should have been denied as she holds a visa that does not accord residency. I really hope that does not return to bite you if/when the error is noticed.

Yes, I understand that, Chris. You may not have qualified for a Family Reunification visa issued by Spain but you certainly would have had you applied for this type from the Malta embassy. Whether this will have any bearing on any renewals or other dealing with the Spanish authorities may be a moot point: you've overcome a major hurdle.

Presumably you could have re?married your wife in the UK and then provided the consulate in Manila with the evidence they wanted in order to get the Schengen visa too?

I'm not sure of the legality of getting married when I am already married (even if it's to the same person). Anyway, doing that plays right into the hands of the Spanish, and condones them for their refusal to accept our marriage as genuine - which they are legally obliged to do.

From COM2009-313 (final)
2.1. Family members and other beneficiaries
2.1.1. Spouses and partners
Marriages validly contracted anywhere in the world must be in principle recognized for the purpose of the application of the Directive.

As I had already spent thousands of euros on our wedding, I fail to see how going through the rigmarole and expense of moving back to the UK and inviting Melody over on a fiancee visa and getting married for a second time would achieve anything more than if the Spanish would swallow their pride and take a look at how they are implementing the Directive.

The simple fact is, we are legally married and show none of the triggers of ours being a sham marriage. The basis of refusal is the unfair and inappropriate questioning to which they subjected Melody. Their mistake was compounded further by their constant refusal to review the case, and their failure to follow established protocols for allowing us to make a defence. Furthermore, they failed to provide a clear explanation of why they had refused us in the first place, citing on the refusal

"There exist reasonable doubts about the authenticity of the documents presented by the applicant, or the veracity of the details, or trustworthiness of the declarations made."

I queried which documents (bearing in mind that all of them were notarised or legalised or authenticated, and all were tranlated by a sworn translator) they had doubts about, and after a few rounds of emails, it came back to the inappropriate line of questioning that they had used when they interviewed Melody.

Had they come out and said that they thought we had a Marriage of Convenience, there is a laid-down series of steps to take, detailed in COM(2014) 604 final. And there are triggers which should be..er...triggered in order to establish that suspicion is justified. You can't just go on a hunch. And you cannot discriminate in any way, such as for instance making the assumption that many May-September Filipino-Eu marriages are conducted in order to obtain an immigration advantage.

I believe we have good reason to suspect that their eagerness to label us as a sham marriage shows clear signs of such prejudice and discrimination.

Anyway, if they are suspicious and triggers have been pulled, then the protocol is to launch an investigation and invite us to an interview. We should be advised of their suspicion and given the opportunity to defend ourselves. We should be given a list of examples of what documentation to bring with us.

We shouldn't receive an ambiguous generic refusal letter.

An already-married person can not legally marry or re-marry. Chris and Melody could have applied for a Marriage Visit Visa which is as difficult to obtain as a normal Visit Visa but gives absolutely no rights of residence in the UK. In fact, this Visa was custom-made to fit their particular circumstances. Except they wanted to marry in the Philippines.

Yes I see...

Article 7 Marriages
If you are a British citizen, and you were married in one of the following non-commonwealth countries[Includes Philippines] (known as a marriage under article 7) you may arrange for your marriage certificate (with English translation where appropriate) to be deposited with the Registrar General, via the British Consul in the country concerned.

This is a way to enable British nationals to readily obtain further copies of their documents once they have returned to the UK. The records are also indexed in the normal Marriages Abroad Indexes and certified copies of certificates can be ordered from the General Registry Office.

http://www.justweddingadvice.com/wedding-abroad/article-7.html

You might have had to wait a little while .... wouldn't that have worked for you?

As I commented in an earlier thread, the British Consulate here in Dubai no longer issues any sort of documentation relating to British citizens marrying foreigners. That was effective from last April. Instead there is a downloadable pdf document on their website which is addressed to UAE authorities simply stating that HM Govt has no objection to such a marriage. I'm guessing that this might apply to all British overseas consulates.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...istry-service-discontinued-for-overseas-brits

It was discontinued on 1st January 2014 unfortunately. You are following in my footsteps John Surrey - We investigated all sorts of things to try to accommodate the Spanish demands for recognition in Britain of the marriage, but nothing exists, possibly because only Spain require it (or more likely, only Spain have worked out that it's a great way of keeping immigrant numbers down)

Yes I understand - I think the woman at the UK consulate said to me I could have it done (2012) and that I could have our children's births registered too... I cannot remember - I couldn't be bothered with it at the time!

Anyway - a bit like The Rock! Presumably it would have worked ok up until January 2014 but now it doesn't because the UK government moved the goal posts...

Would the date that the Spanish started requiring such marriage certificates coincide with when the UK ceased to register marriages abroad, perchance?

They never have registered marriages abroad. All that was possible was to deposit a marriage certificate with the GRO. A register has never existed for marriages carried out abroad, not on ships, nor in consulates or embassies.

From the link I posted;

There is no legal requirement to deposit your foreign marriage or civil partnership certificate with the GRO, or to have your marriage/civil partnership recorded in the UK. The deposit of a foreign certificate does not make the marriage legal in the UK, nor does it ‘recognise’ the marriage as a valid one.

The validity in UK law of a marriage or civil partnership contracted in a foreign country is in no way affected by its having been, or not having been, recorded in the UK.

I served as a deck officer on British flagged passenger ships during the 70s and 80s and we had to submit a register of all births, deaths and marriages that had taken place during a voyage once we were back in our home port (Southampton). All such events were recorded at the Liverpool office of the Registrar General; births abroad still are.