Why Cameron and May are onto a Hiding Over the Bulgarians ET Al

Discrimination that favours Nationals just wont fly and is against the law


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:158:0077:0123:en:PDF

"(4) The right of all Union citizens to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States should, if it is to be exercised under objective conditions of freedom and dignity, be also granted to their family members, irrespective of nationality. For the purposes of this
Directive, the definition of "family member" should also include the registered partner if the legislation of the host Member State treats registered partnership as equivalent to marriage."

"(20) In accordance with the prohibition of discrimination on grounds of nationality, all Union citizens and their family members residing in a
Member State on the basis of this Directive should enjoy, in that Member State, equal treatment with nationals in areas covered by the Treaty, subject to such specific provisions as are expressly provided for in the Treaty and secondary law"

Article 5:

"2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in
Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement"

I wonder if you will still be of that opinion (your headline) in six months' to a year's time.

You have peeked at the tea leaves? Law is law Mark whats happening currently is political propagander

This Mac cartoon is rather apposite ....



but I rather think ostriches might have been a better choice!

The fact that the law exists does not mean that it is a good law or even beneficial to those subjected to it.

Tell me this: where are all these new migrants going to go and where will they live? Do you expect local councils, whose housing waiting lists are already miles long, to make special arrangements which will almost certainly include paying for bed and breakfast accommodation - and how do you think Council Tax payers will react when their existing services such as rubbish collection are already being cut? There's already a shortage of jobs in the UK to the extent that graduates - including those with Masters' degrees - are having to walk 11+ miles a day in Amazon fulfilment centres for a couple of pence an hour over minimum wage; so what will these migrants do for work. And what about their medical needs - GP surgeries in major cities are already over-subscribed and hospital waiting-lists throughout the country are unacceptably lengthy: my daughter had to wait FOUR years to see a consultant neurologist, that referral being made by her GP in Bristol at the start of her university course. And have you considered the educational needs of the migrants' children who undoubtedly won't have any English: schools can not afford language support teachers and haven't been able to do so since the mid-2000s.

I would be far more supportive of your position if the migration load was shared equally amongst the richer nations of Europe, but it isn't and it won't be for the very simple reason that Britain, with her cradle-to-grave welfare state that's the envy of the world, is the destination of choice. And not only for them but for asylum-seekers too, hence the Mayor of Calais' rather vicious attack on Britain's Immigration policy last week.

Of all the richer nations in Europe, Britain alone upholds the freedom of movement rights far more closely, upholding both the letter and the spirit of the law. France certainly doesn't. Spain doesn't and nor do others. Part of the government's strategy is to level the playing field so that Britain is unfairly inundated.

Blind adherence to the letter of the law is no substitute for taking a practical and pragmatic approach.

The rule of law is of course something that its citizens need to consent to but when your government breaks both the spirit and the letter then democracy is reduced to a pale shadow of its potential and we will all suffer. Any Government is entitled to put its policies to the electorate for a mandate to change the relationship with the EU untill then the law stands.

" There's already a shortage of jobs in the UK to the extent that graduates - including those with Masters' degrees - are having to walk 11+ miles a day in Amazon fulfilment centres for a couple of pence an hour over minimum wage;"

It was £8.50 an hour for 10.5 hours four times a week considered good money nowadays by a large sector of the workforce.

All the woes you describe are surely great opportunities to create more jobs to fill the shortfall , quantative easy I think they call it, the printing of money has been going on for a while now lucky we all still belive it has value nah.

Your missus has P.R. now true but your daughter would need to apply for a derivative right of residence card I believe I will check on that Dom I agree with what you say regarding clog popping but short of leaving the completed paperwork with our wills lol

Is Vince Cable your alter ego by any chance?

Like all tub-thumpers, you're long on rhetoric but when asked to come up with practical solutions to real problems, you bluster and veer off on tangents.

Extraordinary Mark I thought that was you after your attack on innocent children afew days ago

I think practicaly we should raid the off shore accounts under the money laundering proceeds of crimes laws and additionaly add 20% surtax to properties bought or sold over 200,000 and use this money to build new affordable housing for anyone under 18,600 who needs one additionaly land with planning permission should be made available to anyone whos prepared and able to finance a self build at its origional value not the extra 100,000 as is currently practiced now theres new jobs in the economy

Affordable housing......

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/th...-just-four-hours-to-build-163432219.html?vp=1

You can build a 3 bed semi for 70k its the land that bumbs it up to 178k

At one time..20 years ago ,I would have called such a project "absolutely ridiculous"!!..These days I`d describe these projects as at the bottom of the UK barrell at the very least.
It may be acceptable for the odd family at a camping site in Cornwall....But a family home? In GREAT Britain??
In this day and age?

Think I`d rather stay here in Paradise!!
Just built a Japanese hot and cold Jacuzzi on our 2 Hectares for 500 Quid!!
Cant moan really..

That was me ... what?

Ah, the politics of envy! Thing is comrade Keith, Communism failed the practical test, or hadn't you realised?!

Just how do you propose "raiding offshore accounts" when the UK has no jurisdiction over them - or are you suggesting a series of "Italian Job" style bank raids, Mr Crocker?

As for your 20% surcharge on house sales of over £200,000 .... yep, that'll work - but only to kill the housing market. You do know that in many cases, Capital Gains Tax is already levied and that's currently at 40% and you want to add another 20% to that?! And then you're simply going to use that money to build and give houses away to anyone earning less than £18,600?! How incredibly generous of you for providing yet another magnet to draw in migrants - not to mention the millions of British citizens who would qualify. Where is all the land going to come from for this and your "self-build" scheme? Are you going to steal it from those nasty people "the rich" or are you going to requisition farm land, thereby adding to the country's food imports?

And yet again you have failed to answer the questions I posed to you regarding migrants. But you're not alone, Red Ed has no practical suggestions to offer either and like you, simply attacks the government.

That's simply an upmarket Wendy House! I read about them in one of the broadsheets last week. They're not cheap either, £10k buys you the basic shell and everything on top is extra. The version with plumbing, electrics etc., costs a few pence under £50k.

Yup me too! Did you install a solar water heater for your Jacuzzi?

yes it was! Dom I think short term memory loss/selective recall must be an expat thing

Yup all the ism,s failed time to move on

Simple use ours and our allies in the states ability to intercept phone calls /electronic comms to penetrate these economic terrorists who launder money

It might make some inroads to stopping the inflationary cycle that stops youngsters getting a home either by mortgage or affordable rent and redress the huge shortage of homes for everyone who lives here rather than it being seen as just another commodaties market for speculators and banks to raid

Glad to see you appreciate the scale of the problem Mark a you say millions of Brits cant get a home without the taxpayer having to subsidise private landlords plenty of land comes up at auction each year from small farmers who die or go under not being able to compete with aggri business

What problem Mark we have stringent immigration ruled and on the europe front there are also clear rules on what you have to do to be qualified people like our own Dom came here worked hard ,brought their families here who also worked hard just what we need nah

Still in the design stages.. parts include,Galvanised roofing,200 meters of black pipe, Matt black paint and a small matt black storage tank with gravity feed to the unit..
Cheep,cheerful solutions are us!!

It was I who did what, exactly? Come on Keith, spit it out!

Certainly Communism failed and, as we have witnessed since 1997, Socialism too failed to deliver. But strangely Capitalism has gone from strength to strength, witness China where there are now more multi-millionaires than in many western nations including Britain.

Ah the Big Brother State ... tell me Keith, have you ever visited or lived in a Communist country? Do you know, for example, that economic migrants within the USSR who flooded to the cities to look for work were housed in "communals" - flats that housed one family per room with shared bathroom and kitchen facilities - and were encouraged to spy on their neighbours and report any wrong-doing to the secret police? One overheard indiscreet word often resulted in the speaker becoming one of the "disappeared", either summarily executed or sent to one of the many Siberian Gulags: a fate suffered by millions. There were food shortages, rationing and bread queues miles long and what was available was often poor quality and well past its sell-by date. Of course, none of this affected the leadership and the more exulted you were within the Communist Party, the more charmed a life you led. They lived in fine houses, waited on by servants (who often lived in damp, dark cellars and were fed scraps), and enjoyed the very best foods and finest wines in abundance. The higher-up you were, the more you benefited. Next in the food chain was the military because the Communist leadership realised that it needed the support of the armed forces in order to stay in power. Russia's huge military wasn't simply to protect itself from the west (ie the Cold War), it was fare more about internal national security. Here again, the more senior you were, the better you lived.

But that aside, you want to raid the off-shore bank accounts owned by the richer of the nation - those like Richard Branson who own the companies that provide the jobs. But that's a one-shot deal and once you've plundered those accounts, then what are you going to do - there is no more money to plunder. And that's aside the fact that the countries hosting the banks that contain the money jealously guard their clients' secrecy and won't allow you to get bank account details or take their cash. You want to punish those who, like Branson, have made a success of their lives - Branson started as a stall-trader, remember.

But that's the thing, it wouldn't. Rather than being sold, families will simply land-bank their assets and wait for a change of government to reverse this ridiculous law. It would, in fact, lead to less housing becoming available, not more.

You're twisting my words yet again!

Plenty of land comes up at auction? Like that idiotic Tory Minister, Nick Boles, you want to see farm land and the Green Belt concreted over. Whilst what really needs to happen is the scrapping of the Common Agriculture Policy which would place more land back into food production to reduce the reliance on imports and thus benefit the country's balance of payments. It would also provide more employment and promote the growth of farming support industries.

We have rules that favour migrants from Europe over families of British-born nationals is actually what we currently have. But, again, you have failed to address the issues that are about to face the country. Let me remind you of those I identified earlier in this thread:

And perhaps you might like to take a look at the crime statistics announced by the Metropolitan Police a week or so ago.

You appear to live in a dream world in a parallel universe. The realities of life require practical solutions, not political rhetoric or idealism to solve.

That'll work well!

Many years ago my father, a skilled engineer who lived in Malaya, built such a system for the house he was living in at the time. Although the house was equipped with an electric water heater, the effects of the communist insurgency meant that electricity supplies were often interfered with and he did like his hot showers. One of the problems he encountered was that the snaking hose pipe would start to bulge and eventually burst. His Mark II version was somewhat more compact and consisted of a couple of (new and large) truck radiators mounted above mirrored glass and covered by a clear glass sheet. The circulation was "encouraged" by a small wind-powered pump he imported from Australia. That worked extremely well!