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A couple of questions

Discussion in 'Europe Wide Visa Discussions' started by CampelloChris, Jul 27, 2017.

  1. CampelloChris
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    CampelloChris Well-Known Member

    The Spanish courts threw out our case. Called it inadmissible. Because we didn't appeal to the Sala de Contencioso Administrativo each time our visa application was refused, or appeal refused.

    Apart from the fact that it does not specify that this is a requirement on any document issued to us, this stinks of stonewalling. SOLVIT, the European Commission and the Defensor del Pueblo all agree that we have been subjected to a persistent breach of our rights, and deliberately so.

    Our case was against MAEC - the Spanish Foreign Ministry.

    Guess who makes the decision whether to allow the case to be admitted?

    MAEC themselves took eight months to reply to the Defensor del Pueblo. Their final stance on the matter was that Melody and I do not have a 'genuine and stable relationship'.

    My argument would be that were that the case, it would hardly be the behaviour of such a couple to make so many applications, so many appeals, and to protest loudly and widely to all who might bring justice to bear. My argument would have been to simply ask them for the evidence, because the burden of proof in such an accusation lies with the accuser. They are required to present all findings (no, of course they didn't) so that each piece of 'evidence' might be argued. There is an EU guidebook which provides in detail the criteria on which a marriage of convenience might be established. (No, of course none of it applies to us)

    And after waiting for them for eight months to come up with their spurious accusation, once we submitted the writ, we were told that the time period during which we were able to launch legal proceedings had expired.

    Nothing more we can do.

    Cue much laughter and popping of Cava corks in the Spanish Consulate in Manila.

    And so, f**k Spain.

    My questions are; I know that Melody can (as the holder of an Article 10 residence card) accompany me to the UK. As I understand it, she should then enjoy the same rights as she did in Spain - i.e be allowed to work and access public services. Is this the case?

    Will she have circumvented the entire FLR ILR circus, or should we apply for a residence card for her? If so, what is the procedure, how soon must we do it, and what costs are involved.

    There is so much conflicting information. Something definitive to be able to follow would be helpful.
  2. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Jeez that's awful Chris, very sorry to hear this.
  3. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    I am really sorry to read your news, Chris, how devastating for you both.

    I'll answer your question in a second but first, is that what you really want to do - leave Spain and return to the UK? After all, by the time you're ready and able, the leaves will have fallen from the trees and the mercury will be hiding in the bowl at the bottom of the thermometer. Take some time off, consider all your options - and you do have others besides staying in Spain or returning to Britain :)

    @KeithAngel is far more up to date on this than I but as best I can tell, legally-speaking, if the pair of you pitched-up at an air or sea port in the UK, Melody should be admitted. But I suggest that you ensure her entitlements - to enter, live and work in Britain - by applying for a "Family Permit" via the British Embassy. As far as I can make out, that Family Permit will permit Melody to remain in the UK for up to five years and can then be renewed. That's the theory and applies now but there's the not inconsiderable matter of Brexit and although Freedom of Movement between the UK and Europe is expected to last until 2021/2, we won't know for sure until the Brexit agreement is signed by all parties. But on the plus side, the EU is demanding permanent residence status for all those arriving from other EU countries once they've been resident in the UK for 5 years.

    The British authorities are tightening up on "Surinder Singh" particularly the requirement to prove your Centre of Life is in Spain. Since you have lived and worked in Spain for several years, you should have no real problems since you can produce your own residence and ID cards, tax papers, business permits, bank statements etc. Melody must be 100% legal in Spain - meaning Residence Card, proof of medical insurance etc.
  4. CampelloChris
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    CampelloChris Well-Known Member

    We are both registered as self-employed here, but the Social Security payments total 588 euros a month. (Compare that with our rent, which is 350 a month). It is said that to earn an income of 15,000 (which would provide a reasonable standard of living) you would need to earn 30,000 to pay the taxes. Spain is not friendly to its self-employed. As British-Filipinos, the Spanish would not employ us. I'm not joking. I have lived here for thirteen years and I don't know of anybody who is employed in an unskilled position. They would employ a Spaniard first every time. Unlike some Brits here, I speak Spanish, but there's no chance of getting contracted employment, at least not here in Alicante.


    This is what I was hoping for because leaving Spain and starting over will not be easy, and paying out a couple of thousand for an FLR or whatever would chop the legs from under us a bit.

    The health cover is included within the self-employed SS payment. And she is covered under mine anyway as a family member. I've been here for thirteen years, so I doubt whether even the most Draconian official would accuse me of attempting to circumvent rules.

    Now all we need is to find jobs!
  5. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Well, Chris, the good news is that you (must) apply for Melody's EEA Family Permit online and there is no charge. This page provides specific information for those making use of the Surinder Singh ruling - which you will be - and on that page there's a link to the application process.

    Although there is no charge to apply or for the permit itself, you do have to provide certified translations of all documents not in English (or Welsh), so there may well be some cost there.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    Chris you summed up the position quite nicely as regards to the article 10 card

    However beyong the first 6 months (assumiug the missus gets an ink stamp for 6 months on arrival or has the FP) it is now extremely difficult to get work,rent a property,sign up with a doctor or get a N.I. number

    The HO haved been more draconian of late refusing what would have been easy grants 2 years ago and forcing appeals

    Your personal position is strong but they will sure look at why you want to return now after having the missus there 8 months although that shouldnt come into it

    The tory,s have said when we leave all European RC,s will become invalid including PR and for "Lawfull" residents they will issue on application a settlement visa FLR or ILR

    In Spain your missus can be eligable for a two year Natualisation process as an ex colony

    I have an eye infection and cant type anymore today will add more as possible
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