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Has the UK got a good future?

Discussion in 'Life in the UK' started by Ricky, May 30, 2013.

  1. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member


    National debt has been considerably higher in the UK in the past, I might add. And is currently lower than many countries in the western world - national debt is normal for most countries.

    Holland, Austria, Germany, Canada, USA, France and more have a higher %GDP debt than the UK.


    "Yes, our debt is going up and is higher than it was before the election.

    But it's still lower than it's been for many years this century, and is lower than in many other similar countries.

    Yes, it's costing more to pay back our debt and it's going up.

    But it's lower than most years since the second world war. Just 6p in every pound of spending went on paying off debt last year, compared to 8p in 1996."



    This is, by contrast, interesting reading:

    "First more than 70 per cent of UK government debt is held within the UK by things like pension funds. It is a mistake to think that our national debt is all owed to other governments or foreign speculators.
    Secondly UK debt is more long-term than many other countries. On average our debts have a pay-back period of 12 years. Countries like Greece need to keep paying back debts and are forced to borrow more to make up for that. The UK does not face any problems refinancing its debts."


    http://falseeconomy.org.uk/cure/how-big-is-the-problem

    Further Perspective on National Debt:

    "How would one judge the British government’s credit if one looked at these figures alone? Our deficit — the one figure picked out by the Chancellor — is high, but our debt to GDP is average and our tax ratio is low. Our good corruption score indicates that we are capable of raising tax or cutting expenditure. And, it might be added, our history is outstandingly good. Few if any other countries have managed their national debt for 300 years without default. One would conclude that some action was needed, but not that there were any grounds for alarm."

    http://www.res.org.uk/view/article5jan12Correspondence.html

    Government Bonds :
    They are part of the national debt. It is internal debt and not debt to an outside country. Only 35% of the UK national debt is to overseas governments and investors.

    Gilts (Gilt Edged Securities)

    "The British Government finances its debt by issuing Gilts, or Government securities. These securities are the simplest form of government bond and make up the largest share of British Government debt. A conventional gilt is a bond issued by the British Government which pays the holder a fixed cash payment (or coupon) every six months until maturity, at which point the holder receives their final coupon payment and the return of the principal."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_national_debt

    Credit Rating
    Britain enjoys a credit rating as good as any other country in the world, far better than most. If there was a debt time bomb ticking away then Britains credit rating would be nowhere near so high:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_countries_Standard_&_Poor's_ratings.svg
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  2. Januarius
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    Januarius Member


    The History of Britain's Public Debt Does Not Give Grounds for Complacency

    http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/markharrison/entry/the_history_of_1/

    Twice recently, the journalist Johann Hari has suggested that we are going through a manufactured crisis. The history of Britain's public debt, he argues, show that present levels are modest and there is no need for precipitate action to restrain government spending:

    Here’s the lie. We are in a debt crisis. Our national debt is dangerously and historically high. We are being threatened by the international bond markets. The way out is to eradicate our deficit rapidly. Only that will restore “confidence”, and therefore economic growth. Every step of this program is false, and endangers you.

    Let’s start with a fact that should be on billboards across the land. As a proportion of GDP, Britain’s national debt has been higher than it is now for 200 of the past 250 years.[/QUOTE]
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  3. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    :D I studied A Level Economics and studied it further at degree level. I learnt about National Debt then. It is perfectly normal. Like I said, the best indicater is the UK credit rating. Second to none.

    There is a lot of unecessary and unfounded scare mongering going on, on this topic.

    No grounds for complacency, but no grounds for alarm either.
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  4. Januarius
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    Januarius Member

    Personally,I do not think its "scaremongering" at all..
    People need to read the real facts not presented or spun by a Government minister and then make their own decisions on how they believe it may or may not affect their future and then plan accordingly.
    Nothing wrong with that IMO..
    If after reading and understanding the facts they then decide to bury their heads in the sand to avoid pending reality,well thats just plain stupid IMO..
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  5. Januarius
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    Januarius Member

    I seem to remember that before the huge collapse, Iceland and its institutions had all been given triple A ratings, ...
    Can we really trust Credit rating agencies anymore?
    Call me a cynic if you wish!!
  6. subseastu
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    subseastu I'm Bruce Wayne Lifetime Member

    Yep, those boys earn big money
  7. subseastu
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    subseastu I'm Bruce Wayne Lifetime Member

    Agreed , I wouldn't recommend anyone going to be a navigating officer now. Things have markedly changed since I started. Better going into the company man side or one of the more specailised areas ie. dive tech, subsea eng or indeed company rep side which is harder to get into from the marine side
  8. subseastu
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    subseastu I'm Bruce Wayne Lifetime Member

    My main concern is any sort of schooling in the philippines would be considered inferior to the uk standard. just look at fully qualified nurses etc that end up just being carers in old folks homes in the uk, a real waste of skill and talent.
  9. subseastu
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    subseastu I'm Bruce Wayne Lifetime Member

    Ah that explains a few things regarding some of my concerns
  10. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    I think there is as much chance of what you are proposing is going to happen as the world stopping rotating tomorrow. There appears to be some dark forecasts on the UK knocking about in the dark corners of the internet and I take them with a pinch of salt. It is fairly obvious from the facts and not what any government minister says that it just will not happen as you propose.

    The facts you presented suggested that the government doesnt include pensions in its debt figures. Those are not the facts.
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  11. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    That is the problem Stu unless, in the Philippines, our offspring go to one of the top universities eg De La Salle or Dilman etc (or they go abroad, as Markam says).

    My other daughter is a nurse in Manchester. She completed her degree recently in Manchester.

    My wife's degree has no worth here in the UK, unfortunately.
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  12. Januarius
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    Januarius Member

    [​IMG]

    Circular argument.. I withdraw!!:D

    Attached Files:

  13. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    There is obviously going to be a problem with pensions as your document indicates. But the outcome will not be disaster. I recall discussions have already taken place and plans are afoot to mitigate the effects. In the short term me and others like me will no doubt receive a state pension, for what it is worth. But for the future people will need to take out private schemes and I foresee that being at least part of the solution.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/topics/pensions-and-ageing-society

    Hardly a case of burying heads in the sand.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/polic...r-their-retirement-through-workplace-pensions

    The UK is not going to collapse tomorrow. That most definitely is the wrong spin. :D

    I would say that I would be a lot more concerned about natural disasters in the Philippines and the potential for war out in South East Asia than any issues with the UK economy and pensions. I wouldn't want to invest money in the Philippines as it literally could be blown away tomorrow. What kind of insurance is available out there against that kind of disaster happening and what are the risks, statistically?
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  14. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    Notwithstanding, the credit rating system as a whole is held as a good standard to go by and that is why we hear so much about it now. It does indeed have significance. And is relied upon more than ever.

    When did Iceland have a triple A rating?

    Here's quite a good lecture on investment ratings. He talks about the Investment Grade rating of BBB which is the level that has been attached to the Philippines recently - Investment Grade rating of BBB- How accurate is that? Perhaps a tad optimistic?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eErg78D6GoA
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  15. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    How about O.I.M. (Offshore Installations Manager) on the marine side? I am not familiar with drillship jargon and would assume it is the same for any mobile rig. Do you have an O.I.M. on every drillship? They have a lot of responsibility and earn wads of cash. Maybe a similar role but by a different name? Basically an O.I.M on a semisub or jackup is in charge of the marine side of the operation.
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  16. subseastu
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    subseastu I'm Bruce Wayne Lifetime Member

    In our outfit the OIM is a marine captain (has a masters cert). They are indeed responsible for the safety of the vessel and ultimate responsibility ends with him. It does vary depending on companies. In Transocean the drilling super is ranked above the OIM on all execpt when he hands the ship over to the OIM between drilling ops ie transits from one wel to the next. During drilling ops the drill super even out ranks the oim in emergencies which I whole heartedly disagree with. That is our area of expertease and some knuckle dragger off the drill floor has little or no idea how to respond to fires / H2s leaks / risk of collision / heli crash on deck etc etc.

    basically though to reach OIM position you must have worked your way through the ranks on the deck side and have an unlimited masters cert. Something I don't have myself.
  17. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    In some outfits the OIM is an engineer and has no marine qualifications beyond basic safety which everyone has.

    I do not pretend to understand how that works.
  18. subseastu
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    subseastu I'm Bruce Wayne Lifetime Member

    Me neither Andrew and I personally wouldn't work on one that had an OIM with little or no marine experience. Saying that the is an outfit called "Noble" that has an OIM striaght off the tankers!! No offshore or DP experience, an accident waiting to hapen. It is an aericain mob to be fair. They talk a good job but in practice fall well below standards.
  19. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    Yes. That's my understanding of that position. And as I understand it, no academic qualifications to degree level required but that might have changed in recent years. I know that on the drilling side, as opposed to the marine side, things have been changing. A good position to hold though, OIM, but a lot of responsibility.
  20. subseastu
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    subseastu I'm Bruce Wayne Lifetime Member

    I think it has more to do with the type installation to be honest. A jack up wouldn't really require someone with marine background unless they are moving location and even then they'd probably bring in a rig move master. Anchored semi's and drillships would require a master mariner in the postion as well as other marine officers for the safe manning cert, insurances etc.

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