Anyone been tracking whats going on up there? Waste of money or a good investment? Certainly the pictures coming back are quite revealing and no doubt better and more close up pictures still to come.
It can be quite fascinating if one is that way inclined. I am quite amazed by the amount of scientific and technolgical discoveries achieved during my lifetime, and definitively, there will be more to come, before I go to push daisies up... Sometime I still wonder how the japanese transistorised everything in sight all those years ago...
We as a species have a fundamental problem, we live on one rather vulnerable rock with limited resources and a limited window of opportunity to make ourselves immune to extinction events. Take a few. Yellowstone park Super volcano (or any of the numerous other Super Volcano's) (civilization ending event thought probably not extinction) Large rock hitting us (extinction event if the rock is big enough) Giant Solar Coronal Mass Ejection (civilization crippling event billions dead through collapse of technologically based agriculture) I have always held that we need to get off this rock permanently, we have one other rock that could be used as a second home with a lot of effort and that is Mars, we should also be exploring the asteroid belt and settling there too. A lot of bad things could happen to the planet but if we have two homes instead of one then even though billions will die we could start again with a technological society, if we only have one home then the chances are that the survivors will be be peasants in something close to the bronze age. So is it a good investment, absolutely, it's not just good it's essential, only problem is we aren't doing anything near quickly enough. Also don't forget that survivors won't get a second chance at technology because the oil and other resources to get started on that path will not be there, our only hope is to maintain our technology base and build on it anything that knocks us back will probably be permanent.
I'm following the Mars rover as much as I can. Fascinating really. There's no doubt it costs huge amounts, but there are so many technological spin-offs and developments. Just getting the Mars Rover to land safely was a massive development project in itself. I just marvel at how we ever managed to put a man on the moon all those years ago without the benefit of today's technology. I also wonder how much of a 'kick-start' technology got from that to allow us to reach our current level. So, for me, it's a positive project and well worth all the investment of money, time and brain-power. Having said that, I always thought we would already have scientific colonies on the moon by now.
Apollo was responsible for driving significant rapid developments in integrated circuits (IC), the basis of all modern electronics, IC's were not invented for the space program they existed a decade earlier in rudimentary form but they did receive a huge boost from the space program. Just a few short years after Apollo 11 we had handheld calculators like the Sinclair Scientific and the incredible HP 35 (Hewlett Packard) the rest is history. Lack of established outposts was simple lack of vision, there are huge reasons to return to the moon, one of the main ones is that we are running out of Helium here on earth partly because it is grossly under priced and gets wasted on trivial things like kids balloons. The moon has loads of helium which could be mined, yes it's a gas but you get it from rocks (and other places) current supplies on the earth will last about 30 years or less. Like climate change and so many other things we are leaving all this too late.
Hmm, interesting perspective again oss. I watched a very good TV programme about Helium (yes, I know. my wife thinks it's also sad). Anyway, it was mentioned that although Helium is rare here on Earth (and getting rarer) it is the second most common element in the universe (behind Hydrogen). Maybe there's Helium on Mars also?
Mars atmosphere probably prevents accumulation of much Helium, the reason the moon has loads is that the sun has been bombarding it with the solar wind for billions of years, it gets trapped in the rock, but it only gets down to ground level because there is no atmosphere on the moon. Mars had it's atmosphere stripped by the solar wind so helium would only be a fleeting visitor I think. Yes the first elements created in the Universe were hydrogen and helium (and traces of lithium) and there is still more of both in the Universe than anything else, all the rest get manufactured in stars and anything heavier than iron gets manufactured in Supernova's. Transmutation of the elements the goal of all the alchemists, they were right it can be done but you just happen to need a star to make heavy elements from lighter ones If you start with heavy elements one can of course split them down into lighter elements but they are pretty much always highly radioactive isotopes that you get out of that process (current Nuclear power industry).
I am pretty excited to see closer pictures of the rock formations. Indications seems to be heading towards sedimentary deposits and presumably the existence of water. I thought that the reference to unconformities in the latest pictures was a bit premature but nonetheless I can see why they are excited. Notwithstanding there appears to be photographic evidence of probable / possible sedimentary banding and erosion, in any case.
There's been speculation from NASA that some of the pictures bear a strong similarity to the Grand Canyon. I'm also looking forward to many more great pictures to come.
Another good reason to build a second home, If we figure out to do that properly and create a working ecosystem on a barren rock then maybe we can figure out how to fix this rock.
No one's mentioned the other element H2O, if they find that then it could be possible to build a base there. there's none on the moon that's why no one will go back.
That's not strictly true Jim, a few years ago we discovered a significant signature of water at the Lunar south pole, NASA crashed a rocket stage deliberately into a large crater at the pole that is never ever in sunlight, the plume that shot up from teh impact was analysed and found to contain LOTS of water. Estimates now suggest that there is more than enough water on the moon to support manufacture of rocket fuel and provide life support for a large colony. Mars we know for fact has significant water reserves, curiosity will no doubt learn more about how much and where it is.
Interesting stuff. Pardon the pun, but it all seems quite mouth watering. I don't know how long it will take them to get right up to these geological features that they can see in the distance (I hope the buggy doesn't conk out on the way) but I have learn't not to trust geology in pictures from a distance as things aren't always as they seem until under the microscope etc. And want to see the results of tests that they do on the rock samples, clues on environment of deposition, for mineralogy and fossils, if any. Apologies for the geeky expressions but it's sort of what I do for a living except here on planet earth.
I guessed that John, very interesting line of work, hard to imagine what else they could be other than sedimentary deposits but I agree completely about getting close up and personal with the rocks before drawing conclusions. It is also worth noting though that photos were released in 2006 taken by the Mars Global Explorer satellite that appear to show the recent presence between 1999 and 2001 of liquid water on the surface of Mars, basically new gullies that formed between photos I think. My own background is in Physics, I also studied Astronomy for a bit, but these days via a long circuitous route I write software for a living.
I see. New gullies. Amazing. Not the dead red planet people have thought. A few changes along the way for you. Me likewise. I am a Geologist but now working alone amongst a bunch of Engineers. But I wish I had done a bit of astronomy as it seems to anchor everything else. And I really want to know what happened to Mars along the way. I will look out for any of your posts on topic Mars over the coming months.
I used to have one of these, Jim. It was to compute navigational data offshore: I thought this model was the one used for the moon landing but I could be wrong.
What would the kids think of these radios now, Dom? :vhappy: I remember listening late at night to Radio Caroline under my bed sheets, it was a secret world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor_radio
I used to work with geologists offshore, JohnAsh. It used to make me laugh how much they enjoyed rubbing seabed samples from "grabs" through their fingers, but I understood it in a geeky sort of way while I fiddled with a side scan sonar fish and cable :vhappy:
