PM David Cameron starts a s*** storm!

Well,

Having my usual read of the BBC Website and various other sites it seems our PM has made a speech from Germany that has inflamed a row between Multiculturalists, Muslims and critics of Multiculturalism....

See these articles for the info/debate

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-my-war-on-multiculturalism-2205074.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/feb/05/david-cameron-muslim-extremism

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...c-extremists-respect-British-core-values.html

I'll comment later when I've digested this.. After work

Ah, yeah, I read it, and I reckon he isn't wrong.

Like Angela Merkel of Germany did a few months ago, he also has woken up to the stark truth of the matter....

The principle of Multiculturalism, like "Communism", is basically correct in theory, but in real terms of practice, in the long run, it won't work..
For different reasons obviously.

A multicultural society, is pure utopia, as different Ethnic groups will always be at loggerheads with each other, as one will feel threatened, rightly or wrongly by the other. others...
And the indigenous population will suffer the most, as it will be asked to give up freedoms and customs, gained over centuries, if not millennia, for appeasing the hurt feelings of strangers settling in their land.

It is about time that the gates were shut and some ungrateful b*****ds given a one way ticket back to where they came from...

Ooh, this will be a long one...

Multiculturalism! What is it? Wikipedia has an excellent article which goes to some length to provide the different meanings of the word. For the most part, in this country multiculturalism is often thought of as the respect and appreciation of all ethnic, religious and social groups. However, in political circles it has become a justification to produce a kind of apartheid!

In one sense Dom, I think you of all people will appreciate one aspect of multiculturalism (being Italian, married to a Filipina, living in the UK). And no serious argument can be made that this aspect is anything but good and should be supported and encouraged. Regardless of your musical taste, or preference for types of food. Everyone (with the exception of the BNP and other racists) enjoys the way our country has a huge range of choices on offer and enjoys the occasional sights, smells and sounds that the different groups of peoples have brought to this country. The simple cream cracker would never exist had it not been for Jewish immigrants (in previous centuries), where would we be without the Pizza, Curry, reggae music, ska music, Salsa classes amd so on.. We would be living in a dull country where I for one would not wish to live!

The political side of multiculturalism is where things have (imo) gone wrong. Politicians in the 1980's had before them a country where racist attacks and murders took place throughout the towns and cities of the UK. British Asians and black people had their homes attacked with fireworks, petrol bombs, windows smashed or simply beaten whilst walking the street. This produced street gangs of black and Asian men to walk their streets patrolling areas the Police had failed to protect. Areas became ghettoized as more and more Asian and other ethnic groups insisted on moving to areas surrounded by others like them, creating Asian areas, black areas, Jewish areas and so on. The police at the time was racist and it was not unknown for black or Asian youths to find themselves in the back of a police an and given a beating before being told to go on their way. Sometimes this was for minor offences, other times it was for trivial matters such as not showing enough respect to the officers who dished out the beating.

There was also a lack of opportunities that presented themselves to ethnic minorities to find work so the areas they resided in became poorer and poorer and some families resorted to crime to pay for the things that they wanted. Other areas became more insular and produced internal systems of an economy that was built on small businesses that traded almost exclusively to their own community. The seeds of segregation had been sown!

Then a book was written by Salman Rushdie lampooning Islams prophet Mohammad was released, this was called the Satanic Verses. This galvanized an already separate group of Asians who saw this as a step too far, copies of the book were burnt and shops that stocked the book were attacked or threatened with attacks. However, this drove the book to become the biggest seller that year and provided Salman Rushdie with $2,000,000.00 in royalties in 1989 alone.The Salman Rushdie scandal came and went from the public consciousness after Rushdie went into hiding following his Fatwa. However, it left a galvanized Muslim community feeling more and more under threat from "western secularists" and emboldened by previous events to protest and make some demands for the respect of their own way of life to be respected and left alone to prosper.

The conservative government of the time was seeing more unrest from the Muslim population, with riots and more protests for localized problems. So it was then decided that new strategies were needed to help soften the minds of this new section of society, giving them the respect they demanded as well as state support to develop their areas and protect their culture. These new strategies needed "community leaders" who could work on behalf of the government but not directly employed by the government. Working towards a shared goal of providing local support and community relations between these segregated communities and the police and local councils. This lead to the empowerment of mosques and Imams, considered as the centre for Muslim areas, given public funds and called upon to provide information on ways to help their communities. These new tactics gave the mosques and the Imams more power on a local level where they could petition MP's Councillors and Police officers for whatever concerns they had, making the local mosque the place to go for advice if a Muslim family had any problems with the local authority.

Then groups founded to promote Islamic values and traditions became the focus for public funds and central government recognition. Groups like the Muslim Council of Britain started to receive more and more state money and a chair at the table when talks were held in Downing street or any other government office. Self appointed Muslim leaders became advisors to the government and more policies were drafted to try and accommodate them and help with community cohesion.

So where did it all go wrong???

At the same time all of this was happening, there was also a Saudi funded outpouring of Islamic scholars who taught the "one true meaning of Islam". They would try to convert members of the Muslim communities to a new way of thinking, but considered as the old and pure Islam from the time of their Prophet. And so the huge variances in Islamic traditions that differed just as much as the different schisms of Christianity were being eroded by a well funded and authentic version of the faith. The Rushdie affair also made different ethnic groups of the UK who were Muslim (Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Somali, Indian, etc) to cease identifying themselves as UK Pakistanis (or Bangladeshis or whatever) and to simply regard themselves as Muslims, first and foremost. Losing their ethnic and often unique versions of Islam along the way to the more authentic version offered by Saudi trained scholars.

The Saudi version of Islam goes under two different names, Salafi Islam and Wahhabi Islam. Some say these are two different ideologies and others say they are the same but with different names (people identified as Wahhabis will say they are in fact Salafis). This branch of Islam is very strict in its teachings, apostates (former Muslims) are killed, Gays are killed, Women are denied equality and forced to cover their heads and often faces, and so on and so on.... The Koran is often taken literally without any questioning allowed or tolerated. This is the Islam that hits the headlines!

On top of this and to make matters worse, western liberals have resigned themselves to not only tolerating such illiberal activities, but they often make excuses for it. Notable politicians and commentators have argued that all cultures are essentially equal and who are we to judge another tribe, religion etc. This argument has for a long time informed political and sometimes public opinion, with critics deemed as racist or fascist or worse. Fascists and racist groups have been outspoken in their hatred towards anything different from themselves, so the attack as a means to silence critics would often work.

In reality, we are in a situation that has been 30 years in the making. No single government can take the blame and to be honest I would think the people who share blame had been trying to do their best for this country but the unintended outcome of their actions (and unforeseeable outside influence) culminated into todays multicultural nightmare.

The good news is that the caveat often thrown around of the moderate Muslim and the extremist Muslim is a simplified version of the truth. There is no black and white on this issue, there are many shades of grey when it comes to the attitudes and morality codes of Muslims today. And we do not need to fear an Islamic uprising or bombing spree, if they happen they will be done by a very small minority just like it was a small minority of Irish people who committed terrorist acts. Baroness Warsi is correct in one sense when she said it was dangerous to split Muslims into two camps - moderate and extreme - good and bad. Though I feel she missed the mark from her point of view, and her comments did little to help the situation or move the debate forward. David Camerons recent speech was good (imo), but I also think he missed a few points or has yet to be informed on a few things, but overall I welcome his speech today and defend his position from some of the criticism that has come his way.

I think it is a good thing to remove the link from public funds and the government from the quangos and community leaders who have done little to help situations. Though it would be better if this lead to a reform that took that same power away from all religious centres so that we became institutionally secular. I think that would have a knock on effect where communities became more integrated over time reducing tensions and letting communities do what they do best - live their lives in peace!

Good post Sean

I think the problems have been in the making for a lot more than 30 years though.

At this time of the morning, I am not at my eloquent best but i will try.....

It is very good to the fabric of a country's society, that a variety of different cultures are included within it.
This, in my opinion, enriches that society itself.
And as an italian, married to a filipina, both living in the UK I am all for it.

The problem arises on realizing that the brit at large, including local government is still in the past, and thinking in racist terms.
In 36 years, I personally have come across it several times, and even now, at this moment in time, it has become subtler, but it is there.
I know because I have been a victim of it.

And you right, stating in not so many words, that racissm was instrumental in creating ghettoes, and no go areas for self protection.
But what I must add to this, is the fact that non europeans, are mainly tribal, and WILL look for each other, and new comers will settle within short distances, thus creating larger enclaves.

The social experiment doesn't work, and it goes both ways, and just as a small proof for anyone to check on...
The high street "99" pence chain of stores.... Is owned by an indian family....
just casually go in, peruse the cheap crap on sale, and look for white faces working there, on the tills, of refilling sheves..... None around......
On the other hand "poundland", is under scrutiny, and must employ gays, disabled people, other races, blah, blah, blah... Or at least prove that they would if it gets to it.

Times have changed, and instead of working for the common good, the tribal communities keep a tight rein on their self emposed exile from civilization.
Maybe, they don't see it as a phisical threat anymore but rather as a threat to their way of life and customs and religion.
And this brings us to the BNP and EDL.... Both of them odious organizations, with the BNP well in the lead for "Neanderthalism" but either of them, certainly don't help the situation we are dealing with nowadays...
I watched 3 minutes of Jeremy Paxman interview with the EDL bloke, and he was destroyed, and buried with the first couple of questions, after that I gave up.

But for all my thoughts, and fears about living in the Uk, I must admit that the unchecked spread of Islam, is what frightens me most.
But luckily, I will be dead and buried when Britain will become a Caliphate.