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Spain playing silly buggers again

Discussion in 'Europe Wide Visa Discussions' started by CampelloChris, Jun 5, 2016.

  1. CampelloChris
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    CampelloChris Well-Known Member

    It appeared that the Spanish insistence on marriages carried out abroad appearing in the civil registry of the country of the EU national, and using the impossibility of that (in the UK) as a reason for refusal had been resolved.

    In a meeting between the FCO and Spanish Foreign Ministry, it was agreed that Spain would no longer insist on this. One would imagine that the route to Europe would now be much easier.

    However, the Spanish (who were the only country in the EU who made such a demand) are now issuing visas for Spain only, and not full Schengen visas, as they "cannot be sure that this agreement will be acceptable to other member states"

    This is almost certainly a breach, yet again, of 2004/38/EC, but yet again, it will take time before they are brought into line with everyone else.

    I think Napoleon said "Never trust a Spaniard". Coming from a Frenchman who kicked the incumbent king from the throne and gave the gig to his brother, that's some damning indictment, but sadly accurate.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Sorry to hear of your ongoing travails with the Spanish.

    I only looked into this briefly, Chris, but from what I can make out, the three principal types of Schenghen Visa ("A", "B" or "C") do not apply in the case of a non-EU applicant seeking to join his/her EU spouse, who is living (or moving to) a Schenghen country, on the grounds of "Family Reunification". In order to be eligible to apply for a Residency Permit, the Visa category to apply for is Type "D" which, in Malta's case, is known as "Malta National Visa". I did check this very carefully with the Second Secretary of Malta's Embassy in Beijing who is, in fact, in charge of Visa issuance.

    I have the feeling that what Spain is doing is exactly in line with other Schenghen countries (eg Malta) in (now) issuing Type "D" Visas.

    It is also my understanding that once a non-EU holds a Residency Permit for one Schenghen country, they can move and establish residency in any other Schenghen country without the need to re-apply as a new applicant for a Residency Permit. This may have some bearing on Melody's situation whose application for an RP should really be made in Valletta since it was Malta that issued her Visa and not Spain.

    But I could be wrong with my second and third paragraphs!
  3. CampelloChris
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    CampelloChris Well-Known Member

    As you know, we have had a nightmare in trying to get Melody here, and only succeeded because we obtained a visa from the Maltese. It's a 90-day type C tourist visa, but after the bulls*it that Spain has been throwing around, they'd better be able to show a little leeway and flexibility when we apply for her residencia.

    We will be doing this in two steps - firstly to obtain an NIE number for her so that she is legally allowed to work (as she is my wife). Then we will make her self-employed which will reassure the Spaniards that she is making her contributions and standing on her own two feet so to speak. It costs 53 euros a month for the first six months, so not so expensive. (She has found work already as a carer for an elderly woman, which is what she used to do in the PI).

    With regards to the type D visa, that's all fine, but when people have applied for their partner to visit Spain and have the intention of travelling within Europe, this will be denied to them unless they apply for residence, which may not be desired. This is where the Spanish have taken the wrong approach once again, in assuming that every partner of an EU citizen wishes to remain permanently.

    As far as applying in Valletta, when she was questioned by the Gendarmerie in France and asked why she had a Maltese-issued visa and no confirmed travel plans to Malta, and three visa denied stamps for Spain, yet a flight to and from Madrid, she explained that I was in the process of selling my Spanish business, after which we would travel on to Malta for a long holiday.

    Plans can change, and buyers can drop out of deals. And this is what we will tell them.
  4. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    There's a support Facebook group here in Malta for EU+Non-EU couples such as ourselves. From some of the messages I've seen posted, it would appear that a non-EU can not apply for NIE - or look for employment - unless and until she holds a Residency Permit and she can not apply for that unless her EU partner either already holds one or applies for his own at same time as she does. Are you saying that this group is incorrect and that Mae can - and should - apply for NIE/Tax ID and seek work BEFORE applying for RP?

    The Maltese take a similar approach and, according to my Berlin correspondent, so do the Germans.

    I may have mentioned before that Mae and our son were nearly denied entry into the Schenghen area by an over-zealous immigration office at Schipol when he noted that I don't possess an RP for Malta.[/QUOTE]
  5. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

  6. CampelloChris
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    CampelloChris Well-Known Member

    @Markham

    European Union (EU) and European Economic Area (EEA) Citizens: All EU and EEA citizens and their family members have the right to live and work in Spain for up to a period of three months without needing a Residence Certificate​

    - See more at: https://www.angloinfo.com/spain/how-to/spain-moving-residency#sthash.OW41CLZJ.dpuf

    Non-EU/EEA Spouse and Dependent Family Members: The legally registered partner and dependent family of an EU citizen in Spain are entitled to the same rights as an EU citizen to live in the country, provided they have entered the country on valid passports and visas.​

    - See more at: https://www.angloinfo.com/spain/how-to/spain-moving-residency#sthash.OW41CLZJ.dpuf

    So, I think this proves conclusively that Melody (and Mae) are entitled to work if they so desire. I believe the rules are pan-European.

    Therefore, being as a Non-EU family member has the right to work in Spain, but cannot be forced to apply for residency for the first three months, but needs an NIE number to open a bank account, I would imagine (but frustratingly can't find the page on which I read the details) that the NIE number can be obtained separately from the residencia certificate.

    Our appointment is for 9:50am on the day of the Brexit referendum by the way!
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
  7. CampelloChris
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    CampelloChris Well-Known Member

    From Expatica:

    Family members – who can work?


    Family members can join non-EU relatives who have been living and working in Spain for one year and hold a residence permit for a further year, by applying for a family reunification residence permit. Once approved, family members can work without a work permit.

    Non-EU relatives of EU/EEA/Swiss citizens can come to Spain without waiting for a year and can also work without a permit. However, if any of these family members wish to stay in Spain on their own separate residence permit and work, their employer will need to apply for a work permit on their behalf.

    Family members of EU Blue Card holders can apply for a temporary residence permit without waiting for a year, as long as the conditions for reunification are met. They can also work without a work permit.

    For more information on family reunification, see Moving to Spain to join a relative or partner.

    Once you arrive in Spain

    Foreigner’s Identity Card (TIE/NIE)
    When you arrive in Spain, you must apply for a Foreigner’s Identity Card/number (TIE/NIE) through the local Foreigner’s Office (Oficina de Extranjeros) or Police Station within 30 days. The NIE is needed for all financial and administrative procedures in Spain, including opening a bank account, being paid for employment, registering for social services, paying taxes, buying a property and applying for a driver’s licence.

    Social security
    Everyone working in Spain must register with the Spanish Social Security authorities, the General Social Security Fund (Dirección General de la Tesorería General de la Seguridad Social – TGSS). If you are an employee your employer will do this for you; if you are self-employed it is your responsibility. See theirwebsite for information on how to register, contributions and benefits. There are provincial offices throughout Spain.

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