Hi. My name is Ronnie. And I have a question. I am hoping to bring my future Filipino wife to England soon. But the problem is that we would like to settle in Spain and we are not sure what impact Brexit will have on our future plans. Any thoughts on this?
Welcome Ronnie, to be honest nobody knows what is going to happen about EU citizens in the UK and British people in other EU countries including the people on both sides of the negotiating table. Common sense tells us that a mutual agreement will be made and I think there will be political pressure to get this done early when the negotiations to exit the EU begin. It may be a better and cheaper option for you both to settle in Spain without first bringing your good lady to the UK. As @joi1991 says @CampelloChris will surely be able to give you some very good advice on this as he lives in Spain and has recently been through the process of bringing his wife to Spain. I'm sure Chris will reply soon.
That or bring her to Ireland, which will likely retain some sort of agreement with the UK, whether UK indeed leaves or not.
Ah. We plan to settle in the UK for a year or so. Then settle in Spain, but am worried we will get kicked out in a round of tit for tat exchanges between the UK and the rest of the EU. I voted Brexit but have I shot myself in the foot?
Well, it is what it is, I am sure that the status of British and EU citizens will be sorted out relatively quickly as the negotiations get under way. If I was in your shoes I wouldn't be worrying about the effects of Brexit at all to be honest, I'd be more concerned about the process of getting your loved one to the UK. Chris will be along soon to give you his thoughts, he's a very pleasant and knowledgeable chap who will give you some very good advice on the subject.
Some Remoaners will point at you, laugh and accuse you of hypocrisy but I'm sure you knew that! If at all possible, I would first settle in Spain and obtain your EU Resident's Cards, a process which averages around 6 months. You can then apply for a Family Permit from the Borders Agency (UKBA) which will enable you to bring your wife to the UK. Nothing is going to happen with regard to your loss of the EU's Freedom of Movement until the Brexit actually takes place which is unlikely to be until 2020 or so. I feel it is unlikely that the Spanish government - or any EU government come to that - is going to kick-out the Brits and should they try, protection may be given by the Vienna Treaty which states that once a citizen (of an EU member country) has acquired a right, it can not be taken away from him, or words to that effect. The reason I say go to Spain first is simply a matter of cost. The Schengen Visa your lady will require to enter and live in Spain is zero cost and there is, I believe, a nominal fee charged for the (UK) Family Permit. The alternative, a settlement Visa for the UK will cost, all in all, around £2,000. @CampelloChris did encounter some problems, not least in getting his wife a Schengen Visa from the Spanish Consulate. I suggest you read his threads carefully. I seem to recall that the Schengen Visa can be issued by EITHER the country where you enter the Schengen Zone OR the intended country of residence. In that case, your lady could, for example, fly direct to Malta (Emirates via Dubai) where you meet her. You can then fly to Spain together either immediately or after a few days' holiday here. Alternatives would include Paris, Rome, Athens, Frankfurt and Amsterdam.
Hi Ron - apologies for not being around for a little while. To say that I had some problems getting my wife to Spain is perhaps a bit of an understatement - we made, over the course of nine months, three visa applications and two appeals, complained to SOLVIT, the European Commission, The Ombudsman - all successfully - before realising that the Spanish were never going to give us a visa and would do anything, legal or otherwise in order to deny us. We applied to Malta and had the visa within 7 days. I would certainly become resident in whichever EU country you choose, and do it asap. Brexit is making everyone a little unsettled, and I would suggest that you do it before Article 50 is invoked by Mrs May. You may not receive such an easy ride afterwards. Once you are the proud holder of a residents card - get an agent to do it for you as it only costs a few euros and saves you hours schlepping from one office to another while hurdling the language barriers - you become entitled to the rights conferred upon EU citizens who are resident in an EU member state other than that of their nationality (read 2004/38/EC Section III for all the good news. Also read COM 2009-313 (final) for further useful information) Basically it says that just as you had the right to move to whichever EU country took your fancy, so do your family members, irrespective of nationality. They have a right to enter the country on an entry visa, issued free of charge and on a preferential basis. All your wife needs to show is; 1) Her passport or birth certificate 2) Proof of the family link - the wedding certificate, duly authenticated by the PBI, translated by a traductor jurado (sworn translator), legalised by the Spanish consulate in Manila and registered in the Phils 3) Evidence that she will travel with, or join you in the EU country She doesn't need to apply for residency at this stage She doesn't need to show 'sufficient resources' in her bank account She doesn't need to show health insurance She doesn't need to show accommodation arrangements She cannot be required to show other documentation However, in reality, the Spanish consulate in Manila are either ignorant, corrupt, stupid beyond belief or a combination. This is how you should approach the situation (in my experience) 1) Go to Spain, get your residence card. 2) Write a letter toaccompany your wife's visa application to Malta, explaining that you are currently living in Spain,but don't like it very much - maybe because of the language barrier - and now want to move to Malta, which is English-speaking. Do a little research and drop a few nuggets of knowledge of Malta into the letter - where you plan to stay once there for example. Explain that you need a visa for your wife to join you, firstly in Spain while you tie up a few loose ends, but then will travel onwards and will spend the majority of the visa period in Malta while you both have a look at business opportunities on the island. 3) Having got the visa, accompany your wife to Spain. Tell the same story should you be questioned. 4) Change your mind. Get an NIE number and apply for residency in Spain for your wife - or indeed, move to Malta. If you intend then to take your wife to Britain to live, you would both need to make whichever place your 'centre of life'. Find work or join clubs and associations which would prove to the UKBI that you weren't just on a six-month holiday before moving back to the UK. (Research Surinder Singh for more information). The British Government lost the Surinder Singh case and are a little touchy about others following in their footsteps and my well have set a few booby-traps for you to stumble into. Do your research before making an application to return.
Regarding Brexit, the Treaty of Vienna 1969 is your very good friend. It details 'acquired rights' as mentioned above. Kicking all the Brits out of Spain would completely collapse the housing market and throw the economy into reverse gear, just when it finally began to stir. I think the threat of legal challenges from the more wealthy Brits who, having sunk their life savings into Living The Dream in Spain and France saw their homes become worthless overnight, plus demands for social housing and com-pin-say-shun from the hoi-polloi of the Euro ex-pats would preclude the diaspora from being screwed by the respective governments. Probably....
Right. A friend of mine and her family just recently moved to Tenerife. She was "bricking it" for the same reason. She was surprised by the Brexit outcome - wasn't expecting it and said "soda it" we are going anyway. Well, my fiance has just applied for a Fiance type visa so we are comitted there. But we were not planning to commit to move to Spain for a year or two. Maybe need to bring it forward in case the worst happens.
People moved to Spain before all this Common Market palaver began - it would just mean that both, rather than one of you would need to apply for a visa.
That makes sense. It's just that some talk of a hard Brexit. And then there is talk of repatriation. Wadda I do ron ron ron....
Thanks Chris, which part of Spain are you staying in? I am actually in Barcelona right now. Great city.
I'm in rain-lashed Alicante, have been for 12 years. (It's not always like this, but it's like being in Skegness on a bank holiday Monday right now) The thing about a Hard Brexit is that we are 20-odd miles away from our biggest markets, and they are 20-odd miles away from one of theirs. Britain And nowadays there's a lovely big tunnel connecting the two. People can talk all they like about 'Ow fings use ta be', but that was before the rest of the World joined in and it all became a global jamboree. We will lose in some areas and win in others, but in general, calamity will be avoided. The lives of run-of-the-mill scum like me will remain pretty much unchanged, no matter the colour of our passports.
Ignore it! There's no such thing as "hard Brexit" or "soft Brexit", there's just Brexit, plain and simple! "Soft" and "hard" were dreamt-up by Remain supporters to distunguish between in or out of the Single Market. We will cease to be a member of the single market but it is becoming increasingly likely that we will continue to enjoy tariff-free trading with it; that's what Europe's exporters want. Unless Spain decides to commit financial suicide, there will be no (forced) repatriations of British Expats.
Yes, if I was Ronnie I certainly wouldn't be losing any sleep over any impact of Brexit, its of benefit to all EU countries and the UK to sort it out in a way that satisfies all concerned.
Brexit is unlikely to happen. The full implications are starting to become clear - there will be no "deal" from the EU to permit access to the Single Market without free movement of labour, and lack of access to the Free Market and passporting will mean that financial services -not just the banks, but insurance as well - will leave the U.K. It would take many years to negotiate an agreement on anything other than WTO terms. The implications for the Treasury of losing the UK's major taxpayers are becoming clear to Philip Hammond, as witness his recent remarks. The Government will bottle out. I would not put much weight on Markham's ideas about Brexit but you will find no better source of information on moving to Malta with a Filipina wife.
And as you can see Ronnie, we have one or two remoaners on the forum. The penny hasn't dropped yet for some people I'm afraid
Well, I have to say that Brexit is not cut and dried. The country seems to be driving in the fog right now without it's lights on. Is there anyone who actually knows how it will all pan out? Some are predicting that a resolution will take years. I think I will say stuff it and just go fo it - a leap in the dark, if you will. We thought about Malta. It's a bit small though. Nice place mind. Still EU though is it not? A mate of mine said to me the other day, "why did you vote for Brexit when you want to move to Spain?". He has a point there, doesn't he? An old Spanish mate of mine said to me just a few days ago. "We want our country back!". He laughed and winked when he said it. But I knew what he meant. He spent a few years working in the UK and had been on the receiving end of things. He eventually left and has settled back down here in Barcelona. We are good mates so no issues there. He keeps moaning about the Italians moving in and opening up restaurants in his patch. He owns a chinese takeaway you see, in Barcelona. I told him "Manuel, what you need is Spexit" and he replied "Too right, Ronnie" but in a Manuel type accent.
