What will we do when there is nothing to do? Automation!

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Ethics' started by oss, Oct 31, 2015.

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  1. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Automation.

    What has the real effect been and will we always keep inventing new jobs as automation continues to encroach on current occupations.

    If you look back at the history of automation it is often argued that more jobs are created as a result of the introduction of new technologies, that the expansion of industries compensates for the increase in efficiency and sucks in more people in higher skilled positions to maintain the expansion.

    I would tend to ask what really happened as the story has been different in different countries depending on the prevailing political environment in each country.

    But before that, if you take a production process and you introduce automation what actually happens?

    Well the experts in making the machines that provide the automation are having a good day, they are busier building their machines and they are better off because they are selling more machines.

    At the factory a whole load of people that used to be part of the production process are probably now no longer required, the old 'one person can now to the job of several people' or in some cases the job of 'tens of people'.

    The new machinery consumes more power and requires skilled mechanics to tend to it and keep it working sometimes they are in house staff or sometimes the support is provided exclusively by the manufacturer, sometimes both. Net result for the manufacturer is that the long term costs of the hardware and power are offset by the much larger savings in manpower and the increases in sales of whatever they make

    What happens to those displaced by the machines, well if the employer has the need they will probably reallocate the best of them to an expanded production line and the rest will be laid off.

    I've seen all this happen in real factories and of course it all sounds obvious but the specific result of all this is that a number of human beings are now at the mercy of market forces in terms of providing a future living for their family's.

    Ok a step back, the UK took a clear decision to largely abandon manufacturing and to bet the farm on services at the start of the 1980's, the pain was immense but overall it eventually sort of worked but there was an economic hole left regards jobs for the least skilled people in the country, those who would have been production line fodder in times past.

    There have always been people who are either only capable of low grade work or only desire to work at that level, in the past they might have worked on the land, later they worked in the first production line factories like the thread mills and cloth factories in dull repetitive intensively hard work jobs.

    Now you look at the story of development in the modern world around the globe, big cities draw in farm workers to sit on assembly lines and to work on production lines, for very low wages, exactly what happened here a couple of hundred years ago.

    As a result of that our least skilled are competing with cheaper low skilled labour across the planet, one of the main reasons that we have a persistent long term unemployment and benefits culture in the UK is a direct result of this global competition, the couple of hundred year monopoly on low grade work that we had in the west finally evaporated over the last 40 years.

    The number of people claiming unemployment benefit has never been below .5 million in the last 40 years

    upload_2015-10-31_9-8-14.png

    you can clearly see the decision to abandon manufacturing in the graph and how long it took to absorb the result of that decision.

    The new jobs largely didn't go to the people who were displaced, they went to their kids it was a generational effect. And where they did go to the displaced they were largely new jobs at significantly lower remuneration than the jobs that had been lost.

    That 1992 - 2008 dip represents the rise of that service economy and the creation of all that middle management and office work that we now have. it took a long time and the story was very painful for a an awful lot of people.

    Anyway this is just an opener I will post a wee bit more later regards where we are going next, at least where I think we are going next.
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  2. knightstrike
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    knightstrike Well-Known Member

    It's inevitable as the technology becomes better. We design technology to be as efficient as possible,
    to do the things that we can do but with less effort and more effectiveness.

    We have created this.

    The only way we can compete is through versatility and creativity.

    If you have many skills, you will always find an opportunity. If you can think 'outside of the box', you won't be boxed in.

    I find that most companies nowadays are seeking the 'multi-taskers' instead of the 'specialists.'
  3. Howerd
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    Howerd Well-Known Member Trusted Member Lifetime Member

    Until my wife arrived in the UK, she had never used an automatic washing machine, toaster or vacuum cleaner. Given there has been a suggestion that lawyers will be replaced by robots, would there be any point to her learning law?
  4. Howerd
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    Howerd Well-Known Member Trusted Member Lifetime Member

    Could you automate you spelling @oss - specifically replacing apostrophe esses with the proper plural?
  5. knightstrike
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    knightstrike Well-Known Member

    No, lawyers will never be replaced by robots. Lawyers are interpreters of the law; interpreters of written words, phrases and sentences.
    Human laws...

    Also, Law requires human judgement and reasoning. It's flawed, hence why a 'perfect' robot won't be fit for the job. Unless they create 'human-robot hybrids' that is... :lol:
  6. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    :D

    Families and 1980s, I know but I prefer my way sometimes :D

    I got straight 'A' grades for everything except languages ;) :D
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  7. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    If you were the synthesist that was responsible for overseeing the AI then you would want to learn law, but there won't be a lot of people in the profession of synthesist. :)

    But when I get a chance I will continue my point, it was just too much to write all at one go.
  8. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I'm sure she'll be making up for lost time using your washing machine, vacuum and toaster Howerd :D

    Did I put the apostrophe in the right place?
  9. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I think that automation makes it even more important for the kids of today to buckle down and do well at school to gain those all important qualifications as labouring jobs will be a thing of the past.

    I work in a lot of drinks and packaging plants and the automation is incredible, robots everywhere and pilotless pallet trucks everywhere.
  10. Anon04576
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    Anon04576 Well-Known Member

    Not quite AI but we are just releasing a virtual reality headset which can be worn by our customers. They can then simulate the wearing of different designs of spectacle lenses and make a more informed decision on their preference. This of course negates the issues (not 100% of course) of selecting an incompatible design of eyewear. A try before you buy if you will.
  11. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    My problem is that I don't think it will make any difference how hard they buckle down, we will be training people for positions that won't exist, in my view we are asking for a level of creativity from future kids that they just don't have because you can only imagine new things to do if you are innately creative.

    The history of humanity is one of leaders and followers, new ideas appear new forms of work and just as quickly disappear, but you simply won't have 10 million unemployed UK people all individually inventing new ways of making a living, it won't happen the numbers are too large and the resources too low.

    The history of the industrial revolution has seen individuals spotting opportunities that required them to employ large numbers of people as a resource, that generated employment and created the many vertical markets that exist today, what do you do in the next round, where are the new employment vertical markets going to come from to fill the gaps (human gaps) when all those existing industries become almost fully automated, what are the new markets that will appear that can't be automated?

    Will everyone become a service provider?
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2015
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  12. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Wouldn't it be an eye opener if we could see a hundred years into our industrial future, the only way of making any sense of that would be to look back a hundred years on our industrial past to see how far we have progressed since then.

    For example do you think anyone back then could envisage the use of computers, TVs, mobile phones and all the rest of our cannot live without gadgets?

    It is very difficult if not impossible to see our industrial future, or maybe we have seen a glimpse of the future already on TV, in the form of science fiction movies, food for thought :)
  13. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Ada Lovelace the fist computer programmer, she has a programming language named after her, died 1852 she could see the limitless possibilities .

    HG Wells got so much of the 20th century right.

    There are many many examples from Science Fiction that got it right and so many that got it wrong.

    The point is what is unique about what people can do that we can't do with AI.
  14. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    Can't see automation helping artics to reverse into tight areas :eek: :cool:
    Even cars will take a long time to sort out and they are not 44 tonnes.
    Think my job is safe.....
  15. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I have parking assist on my car :D

    I think that could probably be done today but who would want to take the risk?
  16. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    Cars don't "bend" also.
  17. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Its a bit like driverless vehicles, I think we are quite a long way off seeing them on our roads, but they will be on our roads sooner or later.

    I think you're safe Mike, you'll be a trucker for life :)
  18. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    None of us know what is around the corner but we do what we do what we can in the present, Timmers ;).
  19. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Exactly, I'm not overly concerned about the future because my future is probably no more than 20 - 25 years if I'm lucky :)
  20. knightstrike
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    knightstrike Well-Known Member

    Lawyers and judges will be one. Politicians will be another.
    Teachers too.

    Yes, the way I see it everyone will become a service provider. Except maybe for sports.

    It's hard to compete against machines in a test of strength, endurance and agility.
    And they don't need work-off, rest hours, pensions and 13-month pays like us humans do.

    But nothing will replace the human mind.
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