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Brexit and Scexit

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Ethics' started by Markham, Mar 29, 2017.

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  1. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Labour tried twice to have some form of parliamentary agreement with the DUP, be it coalition or a Confidence and Supply agreement. Gordon Brown tried when he failed to get a majority in the 2010 general election and his Northern Ireland Secretary, Shaun Woodward, had worked on an "economic package" to secure DUP support.

    Ed Miliband, who had the outrageous cheek cast May's agreement with the DUP as a "coalition of chaos", also sought a parliamentary pact with the DUP ahead of the 2015 general election.

    Prior to the DUP agreeing terms with the May government, East Antrim MP Sammy Wilson said Labour’s condemnation of the DUP-Tory deal was “sickening hypocrisy”. He went on to say "Labour has had no difficulty in sucking up to Sinn Fein over the years and they were never concerned that could have any destabilising effect on the peace process. When it is in their interests, Labour will jump into bed with the devil. We will do everything we can to stop Labour from forming an administration, given Jeremy Corbyn’s links to the IRA. That will be one of our aims in any talks we have with the government".
  2. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    Luckily we now have a Leader with integrity :)
  3. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Are you sure?

    Has Corbyn distanced himself from Sinn Fein and the IRA? How about Hezbollah and Hamas - does he no longer support those terrorists? How about Assad supporters and genocide deniers?

    My last question was rhetorical. On the 10th July he was photographed in the company of Marcus Papadopoulos who is is a notorious Assad supporter who claimed the slaughter at Aleppo didn’t happen and denied the Srebrenica genocide. Here is a small selection of his recent tweets:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  4. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    100% sure thanks it was along wait ...but well worth it:)
  5. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    So presumably you share Papadopoulos' opinion that Syria's Assad is a top man who, in common with Saddam, did not murder thousands of his countrymen. Maybe you'd be reticent to denounce the IRA bombing campaigns and wished the Brighton bomb had taken Thatcher. Possibly you think those who murdered Fusilier Lee Rigby should not have been given custodial sentences. And that all terrorists are actually simply patriotic freedom fighters?

    More importantly, would you invite Sinn Fein's MPs to take their seats in the House of Commons to prop-up what could be a minority government?

    Your - and Corbyn's - big problem is that you were born too late and in the wrong country. Had you both been born around 1900 and in St Petersburg or Moscow then your revolutionary fervour would be understandable. But the Soviet Union - and European communism only lasted from 1922 until 1991. Do you really want Britain to become the Venezuela of Europe - Venezuela a once oil rich country that Corbyn's hero, Maduro, turned into an economic basket-case?

    I think you'd have to answer "yes" to all of the above - if you're honest, that is.
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  6. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    "If your honest" is not a phrase your qualified to make:)

    I wouldnt ague with you though if you said "Jeremy Corbyn is needed as the UK,s next Prime Minister " even though your a vigilante death squad supporter:p
  7. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    You fail to address the issues yet again and instead provide an insulting response.

    As for this grammatically-incorrect phrase:
    I am not but if you think that those who voted for or support Duterte must therefore support vigilantism, then the majority of the country - well over 75% - must fall into that category.
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  8. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    I never find the truth to be "insulting" you have plenty of form being insulting to members and anyone else you dont agree with

    Grammer blah blah

    You couldnt vote for him just be his expat apolagist:)
  9. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-must-not-surpass-rights-of-eu-citizens-in-uk

    "The Swedish minister for EU affairs has said it would be “unfair” for Britons to have more rights in Europe than EU citizens in the UK, as currently proposed by Theresa May.

    Ann Linde warned that the UK must offer the EU reciprocity in its approach to citizens’ rights, and said Theresa May’s government was putting the final Brexit deal at risk if it did not engage in detail with the EU negotiating team soon."
  12. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    I agree with the Swedish minister but only up to a point. Right now we know what Mrs May's offer to the EU27 nationals living and working in the UK is. It may not be the best but at least it's there, she's made it. There is currently NO reciprocal offer to the 1.4 Britons living/working in Europe being tabled by Barnier. As things stand, EU Residence Permits held by Britons will expire on Brexit Day to be replaced by thirty-day Tourist Visas.
  13. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    I think you have missed the point the EU position is that all current rights should be maintained and since we are leaving its up to us to put forward a position that protects those rights(including yours:)) not weakens them:rolleyes:
  14. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    I wish I could be sure that is the case but I'm informed - by a government official - that it's not. The Commission are, I'm told, making British Expats the subject of a separate negotiation by order of Frau Merkel and backed by Poland and the wealthier northern states and which is why there's been a certain amount of hubbub in the press. The southern states - the PIGS nations plus Malta - want the status quo to remain as they have most to lose by pissing-off the Brits. And Amber Rudd certainly doesn't want Brits living elsewhere in the EU to continue to have the same rights as now; she and May want to close-down the Surinder Singh route.
  15. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    The Home Office has been making it up as they go since 2013 with cavalier changes to the interpretation of the Treaties (Regulation 6)and Case Law most recently Eindt at the same time the ECJ has been making judjments O & B that confirm more liberal interpretations and inevitably would have lost the current investigations of non compliance.

    If the EU dont insist on parity regulated by the ECJ then everyone suffers it has long been a convention to have "Grandfathered" Transitional Arrangements you had best hope this is how it pans out
  16. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    It almost certainly won't be the ECJ: removing its sovereignty over Parliament and the British courts is a red line. But there may be another mutually-acceptable adjudicator.

    As far as my family is concerned, we're not too worried: Filipinos are the most welcomed of all non-EU migrants and we're reassured that the Maltese and British governments will enact a bilateral agreement under the aegis of the Commonwealth which will enable Brits to continue living and working in Malta and for Maltese doctors to continue training at St Bart's and St Thomas' hospitals - similarly for lawyers and other professionals.

    Be interesting to see if Juncker keeps to his promise and follows-through with his offer of European citizenship to any Brit who wants it.
  17. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    Im hopefull that May,s red lines will sink like she is
  18. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    If it is so easy for Britain to invoke Commonwealth privilege and create new rules between Malta and the UK after separation then presumably Malta would be free to make such agreements with any other country right now.

    I really do wonder about this because we were constantly told how the EU subverts our Sovereignty and prevents us from doing so many things that we were constantly told would be so beneficial to the UK.

    There are plenty of other references that make it clear that we are not restricted in any way from trading with other countries right now as members of the EU, so to get to the point what was all this really about.

    The question is rhetorical but you are free to supply your notions if you want.

    Me I just thought things were fine as they were, new trade deal with Japan just happened etc....
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  19. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Comrade Jeremy and Comrade McDonnell want exactly the same things as May with regards to Brexit :like:
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  20. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    Well thats clearly not the case

    Just for one (as its the only thing thats been stated in this "negotiation"so far) they dont want a diminuation of citizens rights whereas Mays intentions have always been disciminatory regarding brits rights from Cameron/Mays income restrictions and now she wants to extend it to EU,s living here
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