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1762 - British looted Manila for 40 hours

Discussion in 'General Chit Chat' started by aposhark, Jul 10, 2015.

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  1. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    aposhark, Jul 10, 2015
    #1
  2. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    [QUOTE="aposhark, post: 85698, member: 145"

    British looted Manila for 40 hours:
    .[/QUOTE]

    I thought it looked a bit messy :rolleyes:
    KeithAngel, Jul 10, 2015
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  3. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    I really had no idea this happened, Keith.
    I wonder if any sailors stayed there? They seemed to originate from many places though before leaving India.
    aposhark, Jul 10, 2015
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  4. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    I looked this up years ago after talking to a Bakla friend of Ana's in the hairdressers who was so envious of the state we British had left our colonies like Singapore and Hong Kong that he wished we had been the invaders instead of the Spanish and the Americans.

    I did say to him that not all former British colonies had done well :)
    oss, Jul 10, 2015
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  5. knightstrike
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    knightstrike Well-Known Member

    I know that there will be people here that will react negatively to what I'm about to say, but I'll speak freely about what I've learned from history and from the learned men and women I had conversations with.

    When the Spanish invaded the Philippines, they brought in Catholic priests along with their Conquistadors/Spanish soldiers and explorers. They preached their religion of meekness, compassion and submissiveness to the Moro and Malay inhabitants of the early Philippines. That changed the warrior-like and animistic mindset of the people.

    Fast forward hundred years, they introduced their social classes/caste based on race: the Insulares/Peninsulares which are Spanish-born in Spain and in the Philippines respectively, then the Indios/Timawas which are the Filipino. Indios and Timawas mean 'stupid people' in today's Filipino language by the way. So that will give you a hint on what kind of social class they had back then.

    They also introduced negative traits, that are common with Filipinos now: The Spanish/Filipino Time, the Crab Mentality, the Mañana Habit (Procrastination), the Siestas, Corruption, etc.

    Sure there are positive things they brought, like Spanish cuisine, music, etc. but we had no need for it in the first place. We had our own culture, contrary to what most Western historians would like to imply - that there was a lack thereof.

    In short, the Spanish turned a once proud race into weak-willed, meek, and lackadaisical people.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
    knightstrike, Jul 11, 2015
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  6. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    you missed being economical with the truth Knight ( a legitimate trait for punishment avoidence under the Spanish) :rolleyes:
    KeithAngel, Jul 11, 2015
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  7. knightstrike
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    knightstrike Well-Known Member

    Maybe I'm biased because I'm part-Brit, but I'm one of those people who thinks that we would have been better off with the UK instead.

    Look at Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand, India, and the other former colonies of the UK in the Asia-Pacific. Look how they turned out.

    Still it would have been better if we had not been conquered at all. Chances are, we would have been fierce, wealthy (because we'll be able to freely tap into our resources without politics and corruption setting in) and a proud race.

    But there would have been no mahinhin (dainty) women for you guys! Hahahahahhahaa....
    knightstrike, Jul 11, 2015
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  8. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    We would have had to make do with Ginger Ninjas instead.
    Anon220806, Jul 11, 2015
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  9. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    The thread was not supposed to be about religion.
    Please start a thread about religion if you want then people can decide if they want to discuss religion or not.
    aposhark, Jul 11, 2015
    #9
  10. knightstrike
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    knightstrike Well-Known Member

    What I said it's not all about religion, if you bothered to read it at all. But it's a part of it, yes. The Spanish did bring it with them when they conquered the Philippines. You cannot take religion away from history, after all.

    Hence which is why when the British looted Manila, they did not spare the churches and monasteries.

    I'm not off-topic so if you don't like what you're reading, you can skip my post, close your eyes, don't visit the thread, or blame the Spanish and the British. Your choice.

    Have a good day.
    knightstrike, Jul 12, 2015
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  11. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    I started the thread and if I want to visit it I will.
    It was about the looting of Manila and not about religion if you bothered to read it at all.
    What part of the statement don't you understand?

    There are many religious threads and a lot of them are very divisive, why do you want to hijack the thread?
    Why didn't you say that churches were looted as well as other public buildings instead of:
    "They preached their religion of meekness, compassion and submissiveness"
    Change that to "systematic brainwashing on a massive scale with threats about mortal sin" and they even try it with children who don't know the difference between right and wrong.

    Have a good day.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
    aposhark, Jul 12, 2015
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  12. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Mike you are missing something here, in my view knight is still on topic, he's replying to my comment that I had talked to a Filipino a few years ago who wished that we, the British, had been the invaders instead of Spain, the big long term invaders not the short term 2 year British thing.

    When the Spanish invaded there were no churches, they built them after convincing the locals they needed religion, when the Brits arrived and ransacked the place as part of ongoing colonial wars and as a result of a specific war declared against Spain, the ransacking of Churches etc. was a direct attack on the Spanish and I guess ransacking Churches was part of what Britain did back in those days.

    Knightstrike is speaking from a local perspective as a Filipino about the long term effects of the Spanish invasion on the Filipino people and wondering (speculating) if history had been different, how it would have turned out if the British had stayed long term.

    I would imagine that we as country committed some pretty awful atrocities at the start of every colonial adventure, but in this particular case the Spanish had been there for a while, the British fight on that occasion was with Spain, the Filipino people were incidental only because the Spanish were a fair way along in the process of keeping the indigenous population docile.

    Part of the toolset the Spanish used was religion, it would be hard for anyone to talk about Filipino history without bringing it up at some point.
    oss, Jul 12, 2015
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  13. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    The reason I looked up the British invasion years ago was because, in talking to that lad in the hairdressers salon, he knew his history and he realised I was British and he was trying in his very camp way to be friendly by saying how much better he thought it would have been if we had won and stayed in 1762, the lad was also showing off his really excellent English language skill and so this was a good topic of conversation for him to raise with a Brit.

    Of course if we had stayed that young particular lad would never have been born
    oss, Jul 12, 2015
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  14. knightstrike
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    knightstrike Well-Known Member

    Exactly. But that guy has been on to me for most of the thread I've been on. Who cares, I'll speak my mind.

    The British knew how strong the Catholic Church's hold in the Philippines. Hence which is why they attacked the churches and monasteries during the 2-year British occupation. The British were trying to incite the Filipinos to rebel, to show them that the Spanish were not to be feared. It did not work though.

    The Spanish influence have already pervaded too much. They have turned most of the populace into submissive and meek people.

    If you guys want to read what life was during the Spanish era in the Philippines, and the struggles of the early Filipinos with dealing with the Spanish, look no further than Noli Me Tangere (Touch Me Not) and El Filibusterismo (The Filibustering), written by our national hero, Dr. Jose Rizal.

    -------------------

    But I guess, it's still a good thing though. The sequence of Philippine events. Or I would have never been born. Hahahhahaha...
    knightstrike, Jul 12, 2015
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  15. walesrob
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    walesrob Administrator Staff Member

    Elsa said to me in the past she wished the British had stayed on in the Philippines, things might have been different, but who knows. Its probably because we did such a good job with Hong Kong and Singapore, I dunno, but at the end of the day, every country needs to have its own identity. I suppose once a country has been colonised, it somehow finds it hard to shake off the mentality. Even Dom Mintoff in Malta, who did a good job of kicking us out, still had great admiration for us despite all the troubles.

    I think people see the UK as the promised land, and how wonderful it is, etc, etc. It may have been a long time ago, but now? If only they knew the reality. That reality is the UK is nothing compared to the power of China, Russia, America or even Brazil. We're just a small island off the Northern European coast. We have very little influence in the world.
    walesrob, Jul 12, 2015
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  16. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    It looks like General Draper was basically saying he could not control the militia that he sent in to Manila, which from the sound of the composition of said army, likely would have been hard to control, he as much as says that raping and pillaging were only to be expected, and he wasn't immune to picking up a few souvenirs himself .
    oss, Jul 12, 2015
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  17. knightstrike
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    knightstrike Well-Known Member

    The UK was the former 'it.' The former Power back before WW2, and especially during the Victorian Times. Now, it's just a shell of what it was. Those who don't see it, are either blind, don't read the news, or don't know anything other than what happens in their little boxes.

    But that's not the point. The UK, with all the atrocities they have committed to their colonies, were mostly only focused on taking resources. They did not try to change the people's culture. But they did introduced government and economic policies. Which is why their former colonies turned out well after their occupations.

    They made use of what UK gave to them, but they still retained most of their customs and their way of 'thinking.' That did not happen with us being a former colony of Spain.

    US, Australia, South Africa, Singapore, New Zealand, Hong Kong... each of them have their own identity. While we are still trying to find out as nation what we are.

    I mean look at us, we have colonial mentality. We prefer 'Western things/Imported' more than our local goods. We lack national pride. White is always better. Most Filipinos that speak English will try to talk to you using slang, with a fake American accent.

    Care to define what Philippine cuisine is?

    Hence why I wonder what the Philippines would have been like if the British stayed and really ousted the Spanish.
    knightstrike, Jul 12, 2015
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  18. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Actually if the British had stayed in the Philippines none of us here would have been born as global geopolitics would have turned out very differently, the butterfly effect but a very real effect at that.
    oss, Jul 12, 2015
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  19. knightstrike
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    knightstrike Well-Known Member

    I doubt it when it comes to you, Jim. How old were you again, sir? Hahahahahhahahahaha....
    knightstrike, Jul 12, 2015
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  20. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Mid 50's, the tiniest change in the past, would result in future where a particular sperm would meet a different ovum, such speculation about the past while fun always precludes the possibility that the people discussing it would still be there in the event that anything had happened differently :D

    And if just one sperm met a different ovum then whole future lines of sperm and ova would never exist.

    Not only that but all those Brit invaders would have had to eat, if just one pig didn't get eaten the way it originally was supposed to then all the movement and behaviour of all the other pigs would change and some poor farmer or hunter could get home at a different time and again a different sperm would meet a different ovum with huge consequences for the way the whole story of history plays out.

    For better or worse the Brits left, the Spanish stayed and fought the American's who then got beat up by the Japs who got bombed to oblivion by the Americans and then the Philippines finally got independence, of a kind :)
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
    oss, Jul 12, 2015
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