Hi Bluebird. Thanks for this link, but I cannot understand the relevance of a ten month old story about a few voters telling the "Daily Mirror" they had changed their minds about Brexit the day after voting. Too many posts above to respond to, but best of luck with your business. I am sure that with the right business skills you will be able turn things around and hopefully increase turnover and profits. Rest assured, the economy will not fail. I too like Germany and will try to visit again later this year. Excellent culture, food, beer, pleasant people, though I do find some of them rather authoritarian. Best regards. Dave..
Thanks Dave. The Daily Mirror link was to highlight that not everyone knew nor understood the consequences of voting leave. That does not invalidate the result, but it invalidates claims made by one Brexitter that everyone knew what they were voting for (including leaving the single market, yet Boris was hoping to stay in until recently). In my dealings with Europeans, the Germans have the most in common with us, closely followed by the Dutch. I would say we've learnt a lot of lessons from the past, although the war finished 72 years ago, the younger population no longer has reasons to be considering whether or not winning two wars gives us superiority over them.
Odd how the intelligence of the voters (or in-depth knowledge of the various political parties and their policies) was not questioned forever and a day after every other occasion when they were asked to put a cross on a form. Boo hoo. Blame the education system ? Oops... that's full of liberals.
I guess that a lot of people changed their minds on both sides of the argument the day after, must happen in a lot of elections. I don't really understand why you posted such an irrelevant link young man, I will change my mind when hell freezes over, but you already know that
I am more open minded. I've already given the reasons for posting the link - it refutes the erroneous suggestion that every leave voter knew what they voted for. The links to Boris show that leaving the single market was not an inevitable consequence. Not sure why you needed a second explanation though, but I suspect it won't answer your quest for hidden meanings.
Point taken, but the vast majority of leave voters knew what they were voting for, there will always be exceptions of course. I also think that a lot of leavers were like me in that if they were asked 20 years ago whether they wanted to leave the EU the answer would have been "yes." We were told over and over again by the remain side that leaving the EU would mean leaving the single market, in fact the other week Andrew Neal put a clip together where the major players in the remain camp said just that when he was interviewing Clegg who was trying to use the same argument as you If I remember rightly @Markham posted the interview on another thread. No Bluebird old boy, using the argument that we didn't know what we were voting for is wrong and in some ways a little insulting
Yes that one To me this clip shows what nonsense it is to claim that people did not realise we would be leaving the single market if we voted leave We rest our case
Interestingly, a shell shocked Boris claimed otherwise following his victory. He claimed then, and during debates and TV interviews that Britain WOULD retain access to the single market. I heard him say exactly that in Birmingham. As did David Davies. Boris is reknowned for changing his answers to suit the audience. In 2013 he said that he'd vote to remain in the Single market. I've not commented on any of the others, suffice to say there were people in the leave campaign claiming we would stay in the single market. I remember laughing at the time and wondering "is it all about immigration then?" based on some leave campaigners comments during a TV debate for BBC Midlands.
Access to the single market is the key word, I expect the UK will negotiate access without of course being a member as we are at the moment.
I don't believe I claimed that you didn't know what you were voting for. @Markham claimed that EVERY leave voter knew what they were voting for - hence my link from June 24th. At no stage did I imply that you didn't know what you were voting for. For example, Markham believed his rights would be unaffected until the rights of U.K. citizens in the EU were deemed to be up for negotiation. So, he knew what he was voting for. Similarly, you believed that the door would be shut to Eastern European "scruffs" following the vote. It appears you have to wait 7 years at least.
Clegg answered that and Andrew Neil went onto the next question. David Davies, Boris Johnson and others claimed Britain could retain access to the single market in the aftermath of the election.
I take it you were unable to find evidence to back up your claims on Britain being forced to take up the Euro AND join Schengen.
Access to the Single Market is not the same as membership of the Single Market. The business community only requires access in order to trade with the EU but federalists see membership as the only acceptable (to them) option.
I see that the European Parliament is today wrestling with a really important issue: what to do with the 73 seats currently occupied by British MEPs; the next European elections will take place in 2019, just a few weeks after Brexit Day. Should they abolish them? That might be the simplest solution but one that's bound to be lobbied against by the small army of civil servants required to support that number of MEPs. Redistribute them to other member states - and on what basis: equally, or based on size of nett contribution, or give more seats to under-represented countries. O( redistribute using a pan-European list. Such concerns seem of greater importance than the increasing threat of World War III breaking-out with EU states in the front line. Of course our over-paid, under-worked parliamentarians can't escape criticism, they've been on (paid) holiday since 24th March and won't return until 11th April.
And he accuses me of trolling! Do you really think that the people discussing this are also the same people considering security? And do you think the EU are incapable of tackling more than one issue at a time? Do you have the faintest idea how it works? Surely this is a matter for the remaining countries and not for us? Add those questions to the others that you are unable to answer.
Perhaps "being forced" is not the correct term. Further integration would have been inevitable had we voted to remain, joining the Euro and Schengen would have been part of that process, especially if a Labour government gained power. Thank goodness that we never joined the Euro, I recall that we have Gordon Brown to thank for that.
