IB Diploma or "A" Levels: Which Is Better for a 21st Century Student?

In another thread JohnAsh argued that A Levels are preferable and that British students should attend British universities. His views are not shared by me at all as I firmly believe that an International Baccalaureate Diploma is far more appropriate as it provides a more rounded education and provides considerably more choices for tertiary education.

As John's views and mine are irreconcilable and as there are several members that have such a decision looming, I have turned to a "paper" written by the Headmaster of one of Britain's top independent schools whose school currently provides both IB and A level programmes. Before doing so, I should add that he wrote this in 2010 when the then government was considering replacing GCSEs with the English Baccalaureate, plans for which have been shelved. That aside, what he has to say remains true today, in my view.

So there you have it; the view of an educator.

My son's Grammar school had plans to switch to IB but decided against it. I asked him about this a few days ago. He wasn't sure why.

Herein is the key to the weakness in IB

Ideally a student needs to commit themselves by the time they apply for their degree. Hedging their bets with a wishy washy IB is not a good idea. 3 Good A levels and go for it. Sure you close doors but that is down to making a final commitment. I would flip that statement around and say if you choose a wishy washy IB you also close a lot of doors.

Ultimately it depends on what you want out of your (childs) education and the needs of your individual child.

I have a son taking Maths, Physics, Geography and IT in the first year sixth - he will drop the IT post AS level. He intends to go to sea, whether engineer or deck he has yet to decide on. An IB would perhaps have suited him as his interests tend to be broad rather than deep (which is perhaps an argument for going deck side perhaps).

My younger son is a different kettle of fish- slightly further out on the scale towards Aspergers (although nowhere near the syndrome itself) whereas his elder brother wouldn't register on that scale at al. The younger boy wants to be a scientist or just possibly a doctor - for him A levels seem the natural choice.

Sorry. Error. Please delete.

My argument for this is follows:

Unless the student wants to take a degree in the language or culture of a third country (any other than Britain or the Philippines) then a degree in the UK, or a country where the first language is English, but maybe not Nigeria eh, has to be the most ideal option. As if the degree were taught in a country where there is another language as the teaching medium then the British student would get left behind. I have seen the reverse of this with many different nationalities in my classroom here in the UK.

Unless you go for De La Salle or Dilman or similar in the Philippines then you would come out with the type of degree that has no value elsewhwere, unfortunately.

If you want to study English then where else would you want to go?

If you want to study the French Impressionists then where else would you want to go other than France!

The UK has the top 4 universities in the top 6 worldwide.

Many foreigners, the genuine ones and not the ones seeking a way into the UK, aspire to a British education.

Why do the Germans send their kids to Gordonstoun?

The UK even exports its educational institutions:

University of Nottingham in China
http://www.nottingham.edu.cn/en/about/index.aspx

And in Malaysia
http://www.guardian.co.uk/higher-ed.../01/british-universities-overseas-piece-paper

Heriot Watt in Dubai
http://www.hw.ac.uk/dubai.htm

Which Is Better for a 21st Century Student?

Personally, I have along been in doubt when it comes to distance learning, though it is a product of the 21st Century. A drawback is simply that there is no substitute for a real person in the class with you to guide you through and answer any immediate questions on the spot and the potential for discussion and exchange of ideas with classmates. However, distance learning is growing and maybe for the better in some cases.

I use Herriot Watt, Edinburgh, as an example as it is one I know and am familiar with but they do distance learning degree courses. I have no idea on cost but no doubt would prove to be a lot cheaper than being in and around the University itself. And could be done anywhwere. They say the courses are the same as the ones taught back here in scotland.

http://www.hw.ac.uk/student-life/international/study-in-your-own-country.htm

You would struggle to find a better university in the world for the petroleum industry.

You are assuming, of course, that a child of 16 already has his career path mapped-out. Is it wise to make such a commitment so early in his/her life?

Contrary to what you may think, IB is not a wishy-washy soft option. It actually requires far more study time and greater application than an A level course. My daughter now deeply regrets not doing IB because, although she has a good degree, she has been told by employers (including the Civil Service) that given one applicant with a degree + IB or with a degree and A levels, they will choose the IB candidate.

Possibly, or an IB with a heavy maths and science bias.

You've almost made my point! An A level student would not be able to study at MIT or the University of Queensland where English, or a form of it, is the first language. An IB student would.

Not necessarily Britain. The US, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Hong Kong are equal possibilities. But only available for IB students!

So what? There are many more American universities in the top 100 than British ones!

Probably for the same reason some Germans also send their kids to Bromsgrove: to play hockey, a very popular game in Germany but not available there now. And by the way, German pupils at Bromsgrove follow the IB programme and that's probably true of Gordonstoun also.

Distance learning is ages old and has been widely used in Australia and parts of Canada since the invention of the two-way radio.

You forgotten about the Open University?

I'll take your word that Herriot Watt is a fine university and it may have many alumni employed in the British petroleum industry. But I doubt many employed in the US petroleum industry have even heard about it, much less studied there! But the petroleum industry is not the be-all, end-all; there's a big wide world out there, John!

Not Australia Cobber. Strewth. My ex wife wouldn't study English in Aberystwyth , let alone Australia.

WOW How patronising. You think I hadnt noticed?

I simply don't agree with your assertions on the IB. There is no need to stoop to insults, particularly when they have no validity whatsoever.

Sorry. repeat post...apologies

You are actually very wrong, my man. The UK is the cutting edge for the petroleum industry, globally.

I worked for an American petroleum company for 30 years and the whole industry apart from places like Russia, is truly an international / global industry.

Both Universities ( ie Houston University ) are acutely aware of one another. The alumni you refer to go over to the states to work also. And of course the petroleum industry isnt the be all and end all but it is a very good one, if not great one to go into. It is a massive employer globally. Excellent opportunities for travel and great money and as Stu will tell you, great for time off!

And if the Chinks and Taiwanese don't nick it all then a great opportunity for Filipino Brits in the Philippines.

There are an awful lot of international students from all around the globe that come to the UK for their training in the Petroleum industry. I know that first hand.

I did make that point earlier in the thread. But the thing is if you dither with a wishy washy IB to hedge your bets then you pay for it later as you cant keep up in a tough degree course where they do indeed specialise.

But not every 18 year old dithers on what they want to do further downstream. Some do, as I did. But many don't.

Even at 16 you can commit yourself to a certain degree by picking a certain blend of GCSE's to suit and still take 10.

So what? So no need to go to the States . Not everybody wants to. Who wants to come back with an American twang anyway? Do they?

I will get back to you on that. Need to ask a couple of people that left there last year.

LOL yes. I can imagine. But not in the form it takes now.

Do you copy, Bruce. Is that 10 to the power of 4 10/4 and over?

I have worked in the "outback" of the shara so I know the limitations of radio LOL

Hardly. I am directly involved in a form of distance learning myself. Nice try though.

Well, that's the Americans for you, they tend to be a bit like that. But like I say, the industry is a global industry with personnel drawn from across the globe. There is a lot of mixing that goes on across the globe. Both offshore or in the offices. We have an office in the states. They know about us over there. They cant afford not to. We put them straight.

Also I have lost count the number of times I have been to the states and worked with them both here and over there.

Opps double post

The time is excellant. I class myself as semi retired since 2002! Not bad for a 27yr old.

This is a very interesting thread that I'm reading, There are very strong points from both sides which makes it all the more difficult to make a decision. I tihkn att he end of the day you have to look at where you are located, your kids strengths and weaknesses and any ideas that you together may have for their employment prospects.