Brexit talks have begun

So will you be brave and admit to your grown-up scions that the reason that they're ill-qualified for a decent job is because you preferred to live out of town in a rural setting? Seems like your blaming the government for something in your control - or do you want the government to make all your decisions for you?

If you were taking part it would demonstrate that you have the courage of your convictions.

It's a great pity he's not around to lead the Labour Party: he was passionately opposed to what was then known as the EEC. Foot was far more intellectual and intelligent than Corbyn and was (one of) the youngest ever editor(s) of the (London) Evening Standard at 28. His appalling dress sense was something he has in common with Corbyn.

Now you're off to La-La Land where Magic Money Trees grow!

I see your point, but these political types are far more slippery than we imagine. They will simply spend the next parliament slyly popping spanners into the works and filibustering their way through the two years. Eventually, Brexit will become impossible to deliver by the due date.

The Channel Tunnel took from the time of Napoleon to the time of Thatcher to deliver the first tangible, physical connection to Europe since the English Channel formed.

It might take as long as the time necessary for the Channel to close back up again before we find a politician with the gumption required to actually swing the axe.

2019 POLL RESULT: Britain still wants Brexit - Politicians deny responsibility for failure to deliver. Restate their patriotism and their wish for Britain's sovereignty to be returned.

2019 POLL RESULT: Britain has changed its mind over Brexit - Several politicians step forward to state that they were acting out of a sense of patriotic duty in delaying Brexit.

If we do not reach an agreement with our supposed "friends" in the EU within two years, we leave automatically.

Article 50 has been triggered.

Agreed......but I believe that the required administrative tasks and bureaucracy won't be completed on time, and so Brexit will be adjourned.

And of course....

Triggering Article 50 can be reversed, according to the lawyer who wrote it
Triggering Article 50 does not mean it cannot be later revoked, according to a leading EU lawyer who helped write it, who also warned of “15 years of economic pain” immediately after the UK leaves the European Union.

“My opinion is that there is no legal provision in Article 50 providing that when you give your intention you cannot change your intention, so I think it’s possible legally,” lawyer Jean Claude Piris told Sky News.

Mr Piris was a key figure in the drafting of both the Maastricht and Lisbon Treaties, the two documents that formally created European Union. Until Lisbon, which was signed in 2007, no formal process existed by which a country could exit the EU.

“Nobody thought that it would be used,” he said. “But people thought that if it would be used one day it would probably be by the United Kingdom, because as you know the United Kingdom has always been a little bit in, little bit out.

“Difficult things will begin after the exit, when you go out, you have no trade agreement whatsoever, with nobody, because you are losing the fact that you were a member of the single market, and you were participating to the 60 or 70 agreements with a lot of countries in the world.

“You know a trade agreement is very long. It is very heavy, thousands of pages.

“If you don’t want a European Court of Justice looking at what you are doing. If you don’t want somebody telling you that you’re obliged to have immigration from EU, if you want to be able to negotiate trade agreements alone and not with the others, then okay, fine, but there will be a price, and the price will be certainly heavy. It might be good in thirty years, but for the fifteen years to come, definitely not.”

SOURCE

Oh, I think you have deliberately misinterpreted what I am saying here. Kids should get a decent standard of education regardless of if they live in a town or the country (I hardly live in the country by the way!). Kids should get a decent standard of education whether they live in Liverpool or Berkshire. You now seem to be suggesting that I should up sticks and move to a place where schools are better. Don't you understand what is wrong with that statement? And don't you understand how such a postcode lottery determines the futures of many millions of people? Are you suggesting that everybody with kids should up sticks and move to places where schools perform better?

Schools are archaic. Education will be done by the internet in the future. Indeed, why bother going to all the trouble of learning stuff when whatever wisdom one requires is available. As can be seen from these very pages, all wisdom is here!

All you need to do is learn to type, something that a three-year-old can do nowadays. Unless we learn to download knowledge through some bionic interface. Therefore, everyone receives exactly the same opportunities.

The Daily Mail is going to be apoplectic when they realise the implications on house prices.

Kids seem to get a different education these days.

Mental arithmetic replaced by the calculator or android app.

Definitely. Think back to the days of £.s.d and how people had the mental agility to tackle that lot. We are moving backwards at the same speed as we progress. People look at me like I'm some sort of mathematical savant, simply because I can perform simple arithmetic in my head. They bugger about with a calculator, and two minutes of patient waiting later, come up with the same answer I told them earlier.

Sorry but ... no. The clock is ticking and the more the remoaners filibuster the greater the likelihood that Britain will crash-out with no agreement and, very importantly, no trade deal with the EU27. This Lib Dem/SNP agenda to sabotage Brexit is actually an attempt to sabotage Britain's future and undermine British democracy. But of course they'll never admit as much nor will they accept responsibility for their actions.

What "2019 Poll" is that then? Neither the Conservatives nor Labour want one and as for the Lib Dems, who are opposed to plebiscites as a matter of course, they're demanding one but only because it might overturn the 2016 referendum. Their necks aren't on the line so can afford the luxury of making grandiose statements.

I read that plenty of people do exactly that - move home so that they're in the catchment area for a good school. But maybe you expect the government to spoonfeed you.

I have deliberately kept out of this discussion because quite honestly I am no where near as well informed or knowledgable on the subject of British politics as most of you guys, however, on the issue of whether a parent should be expected to have to relocate in order to provide a better education for their children, then absolutely yes they should. I have been an expat my entire adult life, maybe that gives me a different slant on these things, but having lived and worked overseas for so much time, I have met literally dozens of people who have moved from one home to another, even relocated to a different country, usually USA or UK, in order to provide such an education for their children. Having also paid a handsome sum to achieve it. Of course the standard of education will vary from school to school, district to district. If you want your children to attend the best and fulfill their potential, then yes you must be prepared to make certain adjustments, sacrifices even, to achieve that.

If you insist on using the term Remoaner, I will begin to use my own pejorative term for Brexiters.

I think it unlikely that even our politicians will let March 29th 2019 arrive without an agreement in place. And in the absence of an agreement, in the absence of laws having been rewritten, in the absence of any other vital piece of the Brexit puzzle, I feel that they will request, and be granted an adjournment. Brexit will throw up all manner of difficulties, and we need to be ready to face them and go about it with our trousers up, fastened and belted, not still round our ankles.

In referring to a 2019 poll, don't get your knickers bunched up. I would imagine that the polling companies would be most interested in whether the mood for Brexit is still as strong as it was at the time of the referendum. My imagined responses of the politicians suggests more that they will 'spin' whatever the mood is to fit their own circumstances and opinions, always prepared to show themselves in the best possible light, and always in accordance with the zeitgeist, being the untrustworthy charlatans that they are. I'm not suggesting that a new referendum would be held.

Jeez! You Brexit supporters are really touchy!

As is the agenda of the EU leaders.

How did we get into this situation?

The British people were sold the EEC as a trading arrangement that would be for our benefit.

Now the EU leaders ridicule our country, threaten us with punitive fines, and wish us no well for the future, all because we have decided to leave their ever invasive political control.

If we are a tad touchy, then perhaps we have just cause. We should have seen the writing on the wall when during the 50s and 60s De Gaulle, the then French President, repeatedly vetoed our application to join the new Franco-German trading bloc, the Common Market**. Ted "Grocer" Heath with Blair-like zeal signed the Treaty of Rome which admitted Britain without any reference to the people and barely any to Parliament. He got booted-out fairly soon afterwards and replaced by Harold Wilson who decided that really and truly the decision to join an organisation like the Common Market was too big a decision for the government to take alone and bravely held a referendum which "In" won. Thatcher and Major were dead set against plebiscites - even though the monster had ceased to be just a trading block and had become horribly political. But Blair promised three times to hold a referendum if he was re-elected and three times he broke his promise. We've now had a referendum and we're guarding the result carefully because we don't trust the politicians.

** De Gaulle's vetoes were considered rather bad form at the time considering that he'd spent most of the war years living in an extensive Home Counties mansion requisitioned for his exclusive use where he lived "high on the hog", all paid for by the tax payer.

I can't disagree with any Brexiter's assessment of the EU as stated on here, and Markham has made his point better than most above.

But I feel that all those lovely Continentals are a 300 million-strong pool of punters, eager to buy our stuff, and we are pulling down the shutters on them. While I disagree with the increased federalisation of Europe, I agree with the concept of Freedom of Movement, of goods and services and of capital. I disagree with the open doors policy to non-EU immigration as has developed over the past few years. I don't believe for an instant that the majority were Syrian refugees. I do believe that the skyrocketing influx of Sub-Saharan and Middle Eastern immigrants has produced a Leave vote.

I don't agree that Britain had no control over the choice to pay benefits. I don't agree that we were forced to accept Eu or non-Eu immigrants on a permanent basis with no possibility of sending them back. Britain has much more stringent entry controls, and has the facility to reject long-term stayers within its lawbooks. Sovereignty would not affect that.

In Spain, benefits are not paid to anyone who has not clocked up contributions to their Social Security account. This counts for Spaniards too. Residence is granted once it can be shown that the applicant will not become a burden on the State. Similarly, health insurance or Social Security payments are required before healthcare is provided (apart from emergency healthcare of course) Britain does not provide free healthcare either - it just chooses not to chase up payment from other EU member states.

I just can't see the benefits of leaving. We could choose, as we did with several EU treaties, not to sign. What we actually needed though, was another Thatcher, who although divisive on the domestic front, stood her ground against the EU and won more battles than she drew. What we have instead though, is a bunch of career politicians who use their time to make the contacts necessary to feather their nests and provide a soft landing once the electorate expectorate their sorry asses out of the House.

That's a very fair assessment, Chris. But if we're able to pull-off a free trade deal with the EU27 then it's a win-win situation. And I maintain that we will definitely have such a deal: the EU27 does not want to lose its single biggest market, so pragmatism will win out.

Could it be that the Spaniards aren't fulfilling all their obligations under the various treaties they signed? . My information (from the local EU information office) is that expat EU citizens are able to claim the same benefits as the citizens of their host country. Now both Malta and the UK discourage such claims but if a EU citizen chooses to make a claim, it must be dealt with as if that claim was made by a Maltese/British citizen. Indeed I have been "warned" not to claim Child Benefit here as there could be repercussions at a later date; it might, for example, affect the renewal of my Residence Permit. The British Government refuses to provide the figures but it is known that unemployed EU nationals are claiming benefits in Britain. Child Benefit should, in my view be claimed from the country of (the child's) citizenship; that is one minor change Cameron sought agreement on during his "negotiations" and although Germany - which pays the highest rate - agreed, this was over-ruled by the Commission.

I do wholeheartedly agree with you regarding the abject failure of the NHS Trusts to recuperate payment for health service provision to non-British citizens. It is estimated that the NHS is owed about £10 or £11 billion for such health care provision since 2007, ie the last ten years, and much of that is owed by other EU countries.

What EU Treaties have we not signed? As for the benefits, well you only need to read the recent rantings of a certain well-known member to discover that we would otherwise lose the ability to determine our own future, the ability to freely elect our own governments and for those governments to frame our laws to be upheld by British Courts whereas the EU would eventually relegate Parliament to have less importance than a Parish Council. As it is, our trade with the rest of the world exceeds our trade with the EU and this sector is growing whilst trade with the EU is shrinking.

You live in Spain and should be able to confirm that there is in fact precious little British produce in the shops. Here in Malta, other than in M&S and Arkadia (which stocks certain Waitrose lines) there is precious little available. For example, Cheddar Cheese comes from Germany and is mild to the point of blandness, there is no Stilton or other fine British cheeses (except as stocked by M&S). Just about all food products imported into Malta originate in Italy, Germany, France or Spain.

And yes, we do need the daughter of Thatcher to sort this mess. Fortunately David Davis is not a career politician and the current talk is of him and "Spreadsheet Phil" Hammond taking over.

Today's deal with the DUP for "confidence and Supply" at £100,000,000.00 per vote illustrates the negotiating ability of the Brexit shower clustered around the mean, grasping, nasty, and deeply stupid Theresa May, who is safe from a coup only because they are all worse than she is and none of them trust each other.

Clearly there is no possibility of a "deal" being done and, contrary to what Markham and co would like us to think, all that is needed to put a stop to the nonsense is a vote in Parliament, as the leaders of the EU have made it clear, time and again, that they will be happy to forget all about our folly and will welcome us back.

Since a majority of MPs understand the economic catastrophe that is the inevitable consequence of Brexit, and the British people don't vote for people who make them poorer, that vote is almost certain.

Oh, and there is a bit of a difference between Spreadsheet Phil and David Davis; Hammond wants to put the economy first - Davis would not recognise an economy if he tripped over one.

I remember only too well even though in those days I wasn't interested in politics, more concerned about preparing for and taking a series of professional exams during my career as a ship's officer.

My recollection is also quite clear: the politicians of the day treated the electorate with contempt and would not explain clearly the issues involved as they maintained that the issues were too complex for the electorate. So we were lied to then just as Cameron, Osborne, Clegg and the other disreputables of the Remain campaign lied to us last year.

That's just an anti-Tory rant and has nothing to do with the EU!

No it doesn't. The Brexit negotiating team weren't involved. And Theresa May is not safe from a coup.

Thus reinforcing the belief that you Lib Dems, like McDonnell and the hard-left, don't actually believe in democracy by the ballot box. Neither do the EU Commission, by the way, as we have witnessed with France, Denmark and Ireland all being required to "think again" in referendums for various treaties. It is only you hard-core Remoaners who will not and can not envisage a future outside the EU: even the majority who voted Remain and who are not now remoaning, believe that to be the case.

Yes of course the other 27 members want Britain to remain as we are the second highest net contributor to EU funds. In addition to the £100 billion (0r maybe it's risen to £200 billion) reportedly demanded of Britain is a further £58 million being Britain's share in a new Parliament building in Brussels whose construction is unlikely to begin until after we have left! The current building, Leopoldruimte, is as mere 22 years old and there are two other buildings in the EU that host the EU Parliament: Strasbourg and Luxembourg - the latter one hasn't been used in years. But in an act of profligacy the EU is renowned for when it comes to spending on itself, it has decided that the Leopoldruimte building needs to be knocked-down and a new building put up in its place.

Whatever. Yet more sour grapes .