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Seems Duterte means business.

Discussion in 'General Chit Chat' started by Bootsonground, Jul 11, 2016.

  1. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest


    I think they would get on just fine!!
  2. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    An article in time magazine entitled "Here's why duterte will get away with murder"

    http://time.com/4453587/philippines-rodrigo-duterte-dictator-impunity-marcos/

    In a span of six weeks, the Philippines’ new President, Rodrigo Duterte, has made international headlines for the hundreds of suspects killed in his war on crime. Since he took office on June 30, an average of 13 people a day have been either assassinated in public by masked assailants, killed by police without further investigation, or found as unidentified bodies on the streets, often balled up in packing tape with signs saying variations of: “Don’t follow me, I’m a criminal.” Duterte’s supporters celebrate these killings as necessary comeuppance, while his critics condemn the violence as precarious violations of due process and human rights. Yet the President’s seemingly outrageous actions are merely part of the Philippines’ deeply entrenched culture of impunity. What is frightening is that so few people realize that yet.

    President Duterte’s approval rating was recently a historic 91%, and he is seen by fans and foes alike as decisive and effective, promising sweeping reforms and bringing about the surrender of tens of thousands of drug users and self-confessed dealers before they can be killed. Yet Duterte has also vowed to pardon any police and military involved in the extrajudicial killings, while also pledging to pardon himself. He has ensconced his daughter and son as mayor and vice mayor of the city that he ruled for two decades, while also refusing to fully answer allegations about hidden wealth.

    More alarmingly, in what seems an effort to systematically undermine the traditional democratic checks and balances to his authority, Duterte has threatened to shut down the legislature if it hinders his plans, invoked the specter of martial law when criticized by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, and insulted concerned foreign ambassadors. He has chipped at the influence of the Catholic Church by emphasizing its corruption. And he has warned that members of the media are not protected from assassination: “The Constitution can no longer help you,” Duterte told reporters, “if you disrespect a person.”

    These maneuvers recall those of the infamous despot Ferdinand Marcos, a dictator much respected by Duterte. The similarities should give us pause. While the new President’s predilection toward violence is being justified as necessary, there is little difference between taking the law into one’s own righteous hands and being wrongly above the law. This casts him clearly alongside his political peers, who have always evaded punishment, and who have yet to be targeted in Duterte’s campaign against criminality.

    Take, for example, former President Joseph Estrada, who was sentenced to life in prison for plundering allegedly more than $80 million. Political expediency saw him pardoned by his successor, Gloria Arroyo, and he is now mayor of Manila while his relatives are Senators and Congressmen. Even his mistress now rules as mayor of his traditional bailiwick.

    Similarly, former President Arroyo became linked to a long list of corruption scandals during her nine-year regime, yet she was re-elected to Congress while under house arrest on various charges of corruption. Duterte offered to pardon her a few weeks before the Supreme Court (composed of a majority of her appointees) acquitted her of the charge of plunder. Despite still facing a charge of graft, and thus barred from leaving the country, Arroyo has recently been named Deputy Speaker of Congress. Members of her former Cabinet now comprise the majority of Duterte’s inner circle.

    It is not only Presidents who seem untouchable. Tito Sotto, a TV comedian turned politician, was pilloried by citizens for his blatant plagiarisms in his multiple Senate speeches against a reproductive-health bill that would provide care to women, yet he received no censure from his legislative cohorts. Meanwhile, Congressman Romeo Jalosjos, serving two life sentences for raping an 11-year-old girl, won re-election, twice, from behind bars, and enjoyed his regular game on the tennis court he had built in the maximum-security prison; he was pardoned by Arroyo only 10 years into his conviction. Similarly, members of the Arroyo-allied Ampatuan clan have been charged with the massacre of 58 political opponents and journalists, yet seven years later they have still escaped conviction. As has former Senator Juan Ponce Enrile, a Marcos henchman, who weathered many scandals throughout five presidencies; charged with plundering nearly $4 million, he is out on bail because of his advanced age. These are but few of many examples.

    Best representing this culture of impunity, however, is the family renowned to have refined it: the Marcoses. They fled the country in 1986 with billions of dollars in cash and assets that are missing till this day. After the dictator died in 1989, his wife Imelda, of the thousands of shoes, and her children returned unpunished and regained high office. In this year’s election, former Senator Ferdinand Marcos Jr. lost the vice presidency by a mere 263,473 votes (the office is elected separately from the presidency). Despite ongoing nationwide protests and court cases still unresolved for the victims of the strongman’s martial law, the laundering of the dictator’s legacy is nearly complete: Duterte has ordered next month’s transfer of Marcos’s mummified corpse from its refrigerated mausoleum in the country’s north to Manila — for a burial, with pomp, in the best location in the nation’s Cemetery of Heroes.

    To outsiders, all that seems outrageous. To Filipinos, it’s just politics as usual — the manipulations of a game of thrones, so to speak. After every election, officials abandon any party loyalty to join the winning candidate. During any administration, many a politician is caught doing something too criminal for the incumbent to leave unpunished. Over the years, alleged political pilferers leverage their influence to support an opposition that can eventually throw out their cases, or grant pardons, or return them to power as needed allies.

    Duterte claims to be the antidote to all that, and his many supporters believe him to be the savior our country needs. But this hope is where the danger truly lies. The most vociferous among his fans, themselves now anointed by his very popularity, are inadvertently perpetuating that culture of impunity. Many of his online supporters gained sudden renown only by defending Duterte loudly, and when your new President has a 91% approval rating and can do no wrong, anything you say or do on his behalf is similarly unassailable.

    That’s dangerously heady for both pundits and trolls, who now shout down opposition, cast as bias any legitimate concerns, allege that Duterte’s critics are in the pay of drug lords, threaten death or rape to dissenters, and seek to publicly shame objectors whenever they can.

    This assault on civil discourse and consensual disagreement is undermining the citizenry’s ability to speak freely, and only the powerful politicos stand to benefit from a population so divided. History has shown how systematic victimization of so-called degenerates (communists, counterrevolutionaries, homosexuals and now criminal elements, like alleged drug pushers) can easily swing to anyone else being targeted for voicing unpopular opinions. With our entrenched culture of impunity, that can only add up to the further disempowerment of Filipinos. As the Roman poet Juvenal asked: “Who will guard the guards themselves?”

    Duterte’s campaign slogan was: “Change is coming.” Will that change prove for the good? Or will the new President’s promises make the Philippines less safe in the years ahead?
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
  3. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest

    What is frightening is that the people that write this liberal B.S have no clue about Filipino culture or what has actually occurred since Duterte was elected.
    Duterte warned the addicts to surrender and they have in droves..Thats a fact.
    The problem for the dealers is that those surrendering are interrogated and then become a potential grass..
    The users that have surrendered have been whacked by the dealers as a warning to others..Users that have not surrendered are being whacked anyway by dealers to prevent them from becoming informers..
    Here in Bohol we have new fatalities daily...The locals know who the murderers are and they know it aint the Police.
    Believe what you want.
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  4. Andy_Joana
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    Andy_Joana Member

    This is very true, don't believe all the media rubbish. My wife is also from Bohol, Getaffe, she says people are surrendering left right and centre
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  5. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    No.. This is not a matter of 'media rubbish' or 'liberal BS' and to so-label the issue without analysis is thoughtless at best and naïve, simple-minded idiocy at worst.

    The Philippines clearly has many problems that need to be resolved and although many people currently see his election as the answer to a prayer, there is no place in a civilized society for extrajudicial killing.

    The end absolutely does not justify the means, and although I applaud Duterte's stated motives in attempting to reduce crime and corruption, he is surely going about it in the wrong way.

    It is absolutely wrong to turn a blind eye when alleged criminals are found dead in the streets without due process - and it is easy to visualise that this could quite easily become an easy mechanism of legitimizing murder.

    The United States has already publicly expressed concern at the number of deaths, and, some experts believe that should Duterte maintain his course, he may well be in danger of being in violation of international law and subject to investigation by the International Criminal Court (5).

    The Philippines needs the support of the world and of the United States, and Duterte surely has not helped his reputation by calling the US embassador 'a son of a whore' (1) , by joking about the raped Australia missionary (3) , by threatening to shut down congress (2) , or by granting Ferdinand Marcos permission to be buried in the heroes cemetery in Manila (4) to state a few examples. He even launched an attack against the UN shortly after his inauguration.

    The man seems to a loose cannon and I agree with the time analysis that once a leader disregards the rule of law, the distinction between dictator and leader becomes a blurred one.

    References.
    (1) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...bassador-gay-son-of-a-whore-prompting-summons

    (2) http://news.abs-cbn.com/halalan2016...-down-congress-if-threatened-with-impeachment

    (3) http://www.smh.com.au/world/rodrigo...ter-missionary-rape-joke-20160419-go9pg5.html

    (4) http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/stor...s-at-libingan-may-affect-duterte-s-reputation

    (5) http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/philippine...e-charged-war-crimes-over-drug-deaths-1576084
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
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  6. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    And yet pretty similar methods were used to turn Davao from being one of the most lawless places in the country to what it is today, the most peaceful and law-abiding.
  7. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest


    What do you base your analysis'on?
    Give us some proof of these so called extrajudicial killings.
    My brother in laws mechanics son was shot dead just a few days ago..He was a user.. Father is distraught.
    3 just shot outside jollibee carpark (ICM) in daylight...Its all very sad and the murderers are cowardly and evil people.
    The locals know who did it and it aint the Police.. The jungle wires are very active here..If it was the Police we would all know by now.
    If I hear different then I will post it here immediately.
    Analyse that.
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  8. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest

    Duterte has new ‘narcolist’.

    President Rodrigo Duterte has a new list of politicians allegedly involved in the illegal drug trade and is likely to release their names soon, according to Senators Richard Gordon and JV Ejercito, despite criticism of his “name-and-shame” campaign.
    The senators said they saw the President holding the list during a dinner meeting in Malacañang on Monday night. The list is longer and includes both incumbent and former elected officials.
    “There are many names. There are more this time,” said Gordon, who was among seven senators present at the dinner meeting, which mainly tackled the administration’s tax reform agenda.


    Read more: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/806881/...#ixzz4HYZkeyjB
    Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook
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  9. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Analyse that? Please. You are embarrassing yourself.

    Duterte himself has been viewed as encouraging practices of vigilantism and extrajudicial killing (1).
    There are numerous reports of deaths resulting from these practices. (2), (3) , (4), (5).

    Your experiences, although interesting are unlikely to show the whole picture and are nothing more than local gossip.

    I agree that there are numerous problems in the Philippines of corruption, crime and drugs. However, dealing with these should not involve encouraging either the police or the general public to commit murder without due process.

    (1) http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/06/asia/duterte-drug-dealers-lethal-force-vigilantism/

    (2) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...igilante-killings_us_57aa0e8ae4b0ba7ed23d9fef

    (3) http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/08/13/1613022/us-extrajudicial-killings-alarming

    (4) http://opinion.inquirer.net/96518/extrajudicial-killings-crime-humanity

    (5) https://www.ncronline.org/news/worl...rs-feel-powerless-stop-extrajudicial-killings
  10. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest


    Show us the evidence.
    Anything else is merely hearsay,rumour and innuendo.
    Your conjecture is good..but we need facts.
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  11. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I can sympathise with the notion and the concept of direct action is always an appealing one. However I am sure that you will agree that it would have been preferable to get there by other means.
  12. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest


    The Yellow Ribbon Aquino clan had 12 years in power..What did they achieve by "other means"?
    I`m sure you will agree...Nada!
  13. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    This list appears to be accepted as one of the most accurate tally of drug related deaths during the administration. It is updated weekly.

    http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/794598/kill-list-drugs-duterte

    Statistics show that there has been a marked rise in deaths of drug users and dealers, and, as the list shows, a great many of these have been at the hands of the police.

    The widespread international attention on this matter, and the concerns of the United States, are not based on "hearsay, rumour or innuendo" as you claim. They are based on verifiable statements made in public by Duterte and by the concrete presence of dead bodies in the streets as indicated by the link above.

    There are also claims by the former justice minister that the killings have also allowed other murders to go unpunished.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...than-three-months-in-filipino-drugs-crackdown

    Whilst I do not applaud the legions of ineffectual and corrupt politicans that have bedevilled the Philippines, their failures do not justify a descent into lawlessness.

    Anyone who subscribes to the view held by the majority of humanity, that murder is wrong, must then reasonably maintain a position that rejects vigilante and extrajudicial murder.

    The end does not and can never justify the means, when that means involves deliberate illegal murder.

    As a postscript, let me just add that I do hope that Duterte makes a difference to the country and I do support his strong position against official corruption and against crime.

    For the sake of the Philippine people, I just pray that he doesn't go too far.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
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  14. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest

    Duterte blasts UN for interference
    Dharel Placido, ABS-CBN News
    Posted at Aug 17 2016 08:31 PM

    Says drug war fatalities not genocide
    MANILA – President Rodrigo Duterte once again hit critics of his bloody war on drugs, saying his government cannot be investigated for genocide over the killing of suspected criminals.

    Duterte singled out no less than the United Nations (UN) for calling out his government over the rising body count in his war on drugs.

    ''Why would the United Nations be so easy to be swayed into interfering in the affairs of this republic?" Duterte said in a speech at the Philippine National Police (PNP) headquarters.

    The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) recently condemned the rampant extra-judicial killings of drug suspects in the Philippines, saying these do not serve the cause of justice nor better the lives of the public.

    In a statement, UNODC Executive Director Yury Fedotov said the murder of suspected criminals "do not serve the cause of justice, and will not help to ensure that 'all people can live in health, dignity and peace, with security and prosperity', as agreed by governments in the outcome document approved at the UN General Assembly special session on the world drug problem."


    Senator Leila de Lima, one of the staunchest critics of the president's war on drugs, had also suggested that Duterte may be charged with crimes against humanity for the unabated killings.

    Duterte advised policemen to ignore the statements from the UN and other critics.

    ''UN, you can only investigate [for] genocide when you kill without giving a hoot, if you are killing children, whole community. But when you kill criminals who fight with you, and criminals who fight amongst themselves, that is [our] duty,'' he said.

    ''But we will answer, for every incident that involves killing of human being, whether connected with police duty or not, have it investigated… that way, we can be transparent."

    But Duterte said he would be firm against being investigated for extra-judicial killings, claiming these are likely perpetrated by drug syndicates currently purging their ranks.

    READ: PNP chief claims drug rings behind 'vigilante slays'


    ''For those who are killed by the drug syndicates, we can only investigate but do not attribute the acts of other criminals upon my government,'' he said.

    Duterte also defended the killings arising from police operations in his war on drugs, saying that some drug pushers and users ''are no longer viable as human beings in this planet."

    He said many families have suffered because of drugs, and that he would rather have more Filipinos saved from the drug menace than let the few drug pushers wreak havoc on society.
  15. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    The line between a dictator and a leader becomes blurred once the rule of law is not consistently enforced.

    I am not convinced by the below:

    ''UN, you can only investigate [for] genocide when you kill without giving a hoot, if you are killing children, whole community. But when you kill criminals who fight with you, and criminals who fight amongst themselves, that is [our] duty,'' he said.

    Surely it's the duty of the state to provide a justice system for a full and fair hearing. It is not usually the duty of the state to kill criminals without due process in a democracy.


    But Duterte said he would be firm against being investigated for extra-judicial killings, claiming these are likely perpetrated by drug syndicates currently purging their ranks.

    At least 1,036 drug suspects were killed between May 10 and August 12, according to an independent tally by ABS-CBN Investigative and Research Group.
    Of this number, 625 died in police operations while 318 were killed by unidentified assailants and 93 were found away from the crime scene.


    ''For those who are killed by the drug syndicates, we can only investigate but do not attribute the acts of other criminals upon my government,'' he said.

    Let us hope that these investigations will not follow the pattern of those in Davao where an investigation into extra-judicial killings did not yield a single conviction.

    Duterte also defended the killings arising from police operations in his war on drugs, saying that some drug pushers and users ''are no longer viable as human beings in this planet."

    Translation: It is fine for anyone accused of such a crime to be shot by police without having a judicial hearing.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
  16. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Guest

    "rule of law"

    There is no real "rule of law" here.. The justice system is broken,busted,Kaput.
    Ask Kevin Taylor..
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  17. graham59
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    graham59 Banned

    Well, whether or not we agree with his policies, if he has openly promoted and condoned such killings, and he is the man in charge, then he will also have to accept responsibility.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
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  18. FreddieB
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    FreddieB YOU'RE BANNED JOHN, AND NOT BY DOM

    Live by the sword, die by the sword. I wonder how Duterte will end his days and when.
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  19. graham59
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    graham59 Banned

    Good question.
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  20. Garydarby84
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    Garydarby84 Active Member

    probably the same way as marcos

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