WARNING: Spain will not issue visas to Filipino wives of Brits

I read this from some pdf regarding UK marriage Law that I'd downloaded. The paragraph I was referring to said;

3. Marriage at sea
3.1 Marriage on board UK registered ships
Marriages on board UK-registered ships have been recognised in the past. However the
current view is that, since marriages must be solemnised in readily identifiable premises
(e.g. so that the public would have access to witness the ceremony and if necessary,
object to the marriage) a marriage at sea on a UK-registered ship is not recognisable
under UK law except in very limited circumstances – such as when it is impracticable for
the parties to wait until the ship has reached port.

​

However, I bow to your personal experience (as it isn't really relevant to my situation anyway - we have digressed!

Anyway, back on topic, I had a meeting this afternoon with our lawyer. We gave him power of attorney because the Spanish Consulate in Manila demanded it before they would release our file. Then they didn't release the file anyway.

We are going ahead with a writ, which will be ready on Friday and served on Monday 10th.

This will no doubt put the cat amongst the pigeons as the evidence we have is pretty conclusive and damning. How confident am I? Well, the lawyer has been impressed enough by what I have gathered that he has lowered his price for getting it all done. I asked him his opinion of the case and he replied that he has never seen such a clear case of a deliberate and persistent attempt to deny us our rights - and as I have already mentioned, he spent a long time in China, dealing with the Chinese applicants to the Spanish Embassy there, so I would assume he has had a few visa denials across his desk before. He said that normally, the Spanish Foreign Ministry will refuse to settle out of court, but that the case against them is so strong, they may have no choice.

Lawyers generally sit on the fence and maintain a non-committed stance. To be so positive about our chances is encouraging. He asked me what I was considering as a settlement for damages. I replied that what I really want is an apology, and the 5000 euros I wasted, plus legal costs. Any damages figure would be for the court to award.

​

Awesome update and I hope you don't settle.

Perhaps the op could have married on board a British vessel passing through RP or done it at the British Embassy.

There are precious few ships flying the Red Duster these days and I doubt any that (a) pass close to the Philippines (to be valid, ceremonies needed to be held in international waters), (b) are licensed as a marriage venue and (c) have accommodation for passengers. Besides all that, Chris is correct in saying that marriages at sea are no longer recognised (except in exceptional circumstances). These days such marriage ceremonies are conducted on dry land - a beach, for example - with a local official presiding rather than a ship's captain. The reception/wedding feast can be on board afterwards, of course.

Excellent news, Chris, I wish you and Melody every success in getting this wrong righted.

Just reading this again @CampelloChris - As I've been living here in the Philippines, with my wife, for just over 5 years now (many stamps in passport)... presumably that would exempt me from having to supply some kind of UK Government evidence of our marriage ?

You say in the opening post:

He/she has to prove that there is a real and stable relationship, by showing that they have lived together as domestic partners for at least one year. This can be verified through the corresponding visa of the British national that will show if he/she has continuously stayed in the Philippines as a resident for more than a year. His/her entry and exit stamps to and from the Philippines will show the length of stay in the Philippines as well. If they have lived together in Spain or in another country, proof of this should be submitted as well.

Hi John - the text above is from a letter sent to a friend of mine who wrote to the Spanish consulate in Manila for clarification. It is, to put it politely, complete and utter fiction. There is no requirement for anything other than you exercising your rights under the freedom of movement legislation (as detailed in 2004/38/EC) and insisting that your family members be able to join you (you will need to show wedding certificates, birth certificates, all of which will need to be translated into Spanish, authenticated and red-ribboned at the DFA, legalised at the Spanish consulate, and registered in Manila). A letter, confirming that you are exercising your rights under the legislation (notarised) will also be required.

Your application for a visa for your wife and direct family members must be free of charge and issued as soon as possible.

Any deviation from this is an abuse of your rights under the legislation.

I would encourage you not to start playing into their hands by attempting to comply with any other requirements that they may dream up. You cannot be asked what your plans are, what income you have, what savings you have etc. They cannot use any other law other than 2004/38/EC or the Spanish adoption RD240/2007 when making their decision. This law guarantees your wife an entry visa, valid for 90 days, with no requirement that you apply for residency at that point. Indeed, it is illegal for them to attempt to railroad you into applying for a residential visa (which they may try to do as it then moves you away from the protection of the F.O.M legislation and into National Law)

I have posted a definitive guide to your rights and their obligations elsewhere and uploaded the documentation which explains exactly what they may ask of you, and what they must not.

If they start asking anything else of you, and refuse you your rights under the legislation, inform them that they are in breach of your rights under the European Directive. If they fail to comply with the legislation, go to a lawyer. Do not get involved in trying to do what they ask. They are at best incompetent, and at worst motivated by xenophobia.

The legislation does not apply to anyone who is not exercising their rights of freedom of movement. That means that a Spaniard does not enjoy the plain sailing that a Brit who wishes to settle in Spain does. Consequently they spit out their dummy and begin to make spurious demands. Don't play their game. Read the legislation and know your rights.

That isn't correct. If you read the legislation, there is no requirement that the entry into the Schengen Zone be on the basis of having obtained a residential visa. (Otherwise, how would a family member come on holiday?)

Every EU citizen has the right to live in any member state within the Schengen Zone for a period of 90 days, after which they must apply for residency.

The following is a direct lift from COM2009-313, which clarifies to governments what their obligations are under the 2004/38EC legislation.

2.2. Entry and residence of third country family members
2.2.1. Entry visas
As provided in Article 5(2), Member States may require third country family members
moving with or joining an EU citizen to whom the Directive applies to have an entry visa.
Such family members have not only the right to enter the territory of the Member State, but
also the right to obtain an entry visa18. This distinguishes them from other third country
nationals, who have no such right.
Third country family members should be issued as soon as possible and on the basis of an
accelerated procedure with a free of charge short-term entry visa. By analogy with Article
23 of the Visa Code19 the Commission considers that delays of more than four weeks are not
reasonable. The authorities of the Member States should guide the family members as to the
type of visa they should apply for, and they cannot require them to apply for long-term,
residence or family reunification visas. Member States must grant such family members every
facility to obtain the necessary visas. Member States may use premium call lines or services
of an external company to set up an appointment but must offer the possibility of direct access
to the consulate to third country family members.
As the right to be issued with an entry visa is derived from the family link with the EU
citizen, Member States may require only the presentation of a valid passport and evidence
of the family link20 (and also dependency, serious health grounds, durability of partnerships,
where applicable). No additional documents, such as a proof of accommodation, sufficient
resources, an invitation letter or return ticket, can be required.

Clearly, an entry visa is all that is required. No family reunification, no residential visa. A family member is entitled to a 90-day stay in a Schengen Zone country when accompanying or joining the EU citizen.

Later, should they wish to remain, they will need to apply for residency. As there is a family link to the EU citizen, they actually have the right to stay, and the granting of a residential permit is a formality (as was proved when Melody applied.

As you know, Melody was given a type C visa, which, I agree, is not a 90-day entry permit as described under the legislation. But should she be challenged at any point during the 90-day period, the presentation of our marriage certificate 'trumps' any objection they may have raised.

The pragmatic point is that once over the border, she was virtually impossible to deport, and as long as we were together, guaranteed her residential certificate - in that, if I qualified for residency (which I clearly did), then she qualified by rights afforded to family members.

In effect, she is to all intents and purposes, a de-facto EU citizen. Her rights become automatic after five years residency in Spain. As a Filipino, she is also entitled to Spanish citizenship after two years. This is not something we would pursue unless Brexit forced our hand, because it would mean that she would surrender her Filipino nationality, and then never be able to buy property in the Phils.

Possibly things are interpreted differently in Malta, but reading the legislation and other documents, I imagine that the refusal to issue a residence card could be easily defeated in court, no matter which type of visa was issued. Once inside the Schengen Zone, residence is a formality as long as the family link is maintained.

@John Surrey : Please download and read this pdf. You will find it most useful

Yes, sorry. Melody has told me of one of her friends who surrendered her Filipino nationality and then couldn't buy a house back in the Phils. When I asked her about that, it wasn't Spanish that the woman had changed to.

Spain will not allow joint nationality except for nationals of Andorra, Portugal, Philippines and Equatorial Guinea.

Thanks for putting me right on that one. Melody will just have to have a night on the naughty step.

Tell her friend that she can still buy a house in her name as a former Filipino..There are limits to how big the lot can be ..Think its 5000 Sqr meters for urban land and 3 hectares for Rural land..
So that`s good!

Yes I hear all that.

I know that you have "the right" but I believe the consulate also has the right to deny you that "right" if you haven't provided them with documentary evidence ("UK issued marriage cert") from your government as that's their yardstick to establish the marriage is genuine.

As you are unable to furnish the above document the consulate simply takes the unable to prove relationship is genuine line... but what I seem to be reading is that as long as you've lived with your wife for over a year (anywhere) and can verify that (like I can with passport stamps) then that would be enough to issue my wife with a Visa - I just wondered if you could corroborate that?

Again from COM2009-313 -
2.1. Family members and other beneficiaries
2.1.1. Spouses and partners
Marriages validly contracted anywhere in the world must be in principle recognized for the purpose of the application of the Directive.

They don't have any right at all. None.

And as far as 'establishing that the marriage is genuine', the marriage certificate does exactly that. Unless they can show substantial proof that there is an abuse being carried out (and the onus is on them, based on a strict protocol) they cannot deny a visa. It is not for them to arbitrarily decide upon the quality of a marriage or its courtship. A marriage certificate is the only proof of family link that they should require.

Any deviation from established protocols is an abuse of the rights bestowed under the Directive. Denying a visa because they don't approve of online dating sites would be just that.

There is no requirement for you to provide either a UK issued marriage certificate, nor any 'recognition' of such by the British Government. A marriage certificate is a marriage certificate, and as ours was authenticated, registered, legalised and translated, should have been accepted by the Spanish in Manila.

If you can hold on just a while before you make your application, I'm sure that they will have had their memories jogged by my lawyers, and be fully aware of their obligations. (It can be safely assumed that I will be posting on here!)

In your case, they would indeed probably accept that yours is a genuine and stable relationship, and wouldn't be able to turn you down, at least not on that basis. The law that they are attempting to use is not actually supposed to be used for spouses - something my lawyer will no doubt also be making clear in their minds.

Yes I understand... have you read this, relating to short term tourist visas for Spain:

For spouses of Spanish/EU nationals – Spanish/EU marriage certificate (issued not more than 6 months ago) recognized by the Government of the corresponding EU national. Marriages that are not registered/recognized by the corresponding EU Government will not be processed as an EU spouse visa. Only marriages recognized/registered by the corresponding EU Government are free of charge?

A load of old pony. National governments do not have the option to impose additional conditions which override European Rights of Free Movement. They already know this.

I posted a copy of the letter I received from the FCO in a Freedom of Information request. In February 2016, the MAEC (Spanish FCO equivalent) confirmed to the FCO that they do not require registration/recognition of marriages carried out abroad:

Chris Whewell made this Freedom of Information request to Foreign and Commonwealth Office

Dear Foreign and Commonwealth Office,

As there is no facility for registration in the UK of a marriage carried out in a country other than the UK, what have the FCO done in order to satisfy the requirement of the Spanish authorities (who insist upon registration of a foreign marriage in the UK prior to the issuance of an entry visa - a right under 2004/38/EC)

Yours faithfully,

Christopher Whewell

They replied as follows:

Dear Mr Whewell

Please refer to your e-mail of 22 March. I am replying as a member of Consular Directorate in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office with responsibility for the policy on marriage of British citizens overseas. I am very sorry the delay in replying to you on this matter.

We provide wording, in the form of Information Notes, on a number of issues which British citizens can present to foreign authorities. Such issues include the validity of a foreign marriage in the UK (which I understand our Embassy has already provided) as well as such matters as dual nationality, driving licences and the electoral roll for example. We are aware that some countries do require confirmation of the validity of a foreign marriage in the UK because they have processes to do so in their own country and assume that we have similar mechanisms. Some countries require an Information Note to be stamped by a British Embassy whereas others accept a copy that can be downloaded by the British citizen from a British Embassy website. It is difficult, therefore, to be precise on which countries ask for clarification on the issue of foreign marriages in the UK.

We do know that the Spanish authorities used to ask for this clarification and we provided Information Notes as appropriate. Consular staff at our Embassy in Madrid met with officials at the Spanish Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) in February this year. At that meeting it was agreed that Spanish consular missions would no longer request confirmation of the validity of foreign marriages in the UK. The MFA confirmed that visa applications are assessed on their own merits without referral to UK marriage registration or recognition. The Spanish MFA told our consular staff that a locally issued marriage certificate should be sufficient for visa applications. The MFA indicated that where a visa has been refused it was for other reasons and not because a foreign marriage could not be registered in the UK.

I hope this answers your questions

Yours sincerely

David Rowe
Consular Directorate
Foreign and Commonwealth Office

I also have a positive ruling from the European Commission regarding having been charged 60 euros for each of our three visa applications.

This will form part of the claim against the consulate. It is illegal to charge money for a visa application for a family member.

Yes I hear all that you're saying - but surely you would have read the following before you (your wife) applied for the visa:

For spouses of Spanish/EU nationals – Spanish/EU marriage certificate (issued not more than 6 months ago) recognized by the Government of the corresponding EU national. Marriages that are not registered/recognized by the corresponding EU Government will not be processed as an EU spouse visa. Only marriages recognized/registered by the corresponding EU Government are free of charge?

Yes I read it. Just because it has been written on a Government website doesn't mean it is legal. They are attempting to impose national conditions on a European Law. The European Directive takes primacy over national law - in that it must be transposed into National Law without amendment or condition.

This is not my usual bombastic nature saying this. The European Commission (as stated above) have ruled in my favour that a) Our valid wedding certificate must be accepted, and B) Visas must be issued free of charge to family members of EU Citizens.

We won.

We are now only taking it to the Spanish courts to get our money back that they cost us when they abused our rights and to get a letter of apology.

They could have written that I have to dance the Hokey-Cokey while wearing a sombrero, but it still wouldn't be legally enforceable. All European countries are being hauled before the court in Brussels for infractions of European Laws. Spain is no different. Their attempt to stymie the flow of immigrants by such clumsy methods has already been defeated. The case is still with the European Commission (among others), and Spain will be made to comply with the Directive.

The UK is being continually taken to court over the ridiculous 264-or-so-page application form that applicants are 'encouraged' to complete. Although Britain opted out of being in the Schengen Zone, the Freedom of Movement legislation still applies, hence the number of Polish people in the UK (and everyone else).

It's easy to swallow the BS that they wrap up in officialese, but if you know the law, you can see what they are trying to do.

John, you have the right to return to the EU whenever you like.
If you move to an EU country other than that of your nationality, the legislation becomes 'activated'.
You are therefore free to move to Spain, and bring your family members with you, no questions asked, for a period of up to 90 days.
You are free to apply for residency in Spain, and as long as you have health cover and enough income/savings so as not to be a burden on the Spanish state, this will be granted.
Your family member, dependent on you will also be granted residency and issued a certificate as such.
Their certificate will state that they are The Family Member of An EU Citizen.
This is valid for 5 years, after which they would receive a card in their own right.

I have attached the guidebook to this post as well. You must remember that national governments may not deviate from the conditions laid down therein, unless it would be to make the process easier.

Reading through your posts again it looks like you tried to apply to the Embassy in Manila directly rather than use the BLS

https://ph.blsspainvisa.com/index.php

I think if you'd done it through BLS you'd have discovered a lot earlier that you were going to have problems as they clearly state their position regarding Filipino marriage certificates and avoided Spain as the point of entry to EU.

I think it's also a little over the top to title your post "WARNING: Spain will not issue visas to Filipino wives of Brits" as it's not really true - yes it's true for you and quite a few others who haven't lived with their wives for a year but it's a bit misleading to others reading this forum for tips on how to do things and information to put that up there that way.

I do feel sorry for your wife - she's obviously born the brunt of it all.

I'm sure you'll disagree but I don't actually think the consulate are doing too much wrong - they're simply asking you to provide the same security regarding your marriage as they ask their own nationals to do. And from another point of view the person their approach is protecting is the girl, your wife; RP is a high risk country and human trafficking is rife here.

Yes the EU Law says all you need is a marriage certificate and passport - but if I had a UK Marriage Certificate in one hand and a Filipino one in the other I know which one I'd, rightly or wrongly, be more sceptical of.

Anyway my guide to free movement is definitely better than yours, good luck with your case - I won't hold my breath