1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Will You Vote UKIP in the 2015 General Election?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Ethics' started by Anon220806, Apr 8, 2014.

?

Can you see yourself voting UKIP in the 2015 General Election?

Poll closed Apr 15, 2014.
  1. Yes. Absolutely

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. No. Definitely

    5 vote(s)
    71.4%
  3. Maybe.

    2 vote(s)
    28.6%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Kuya
    Offline

    Kuya The Geeky One Staff Member

    @aposhark I didn't vote in the last general election, had just done a move and wasn't eligible to vote at the new address then. Otherwise I would have voted Green..

    The result is pretty much what we expected and I know most Kippers will be over the moon today, the obvious irony that they all voted against their own interests might come to bite them on the backside next year if we see a similar result come 2015.

    @Timmers Can I ask you, would you benefit from a flat tax? I mean, the removal of national insurance, the abolition of the tax free £10,000.00 people get before they pay income tax on the rest. Essentially, would you benefit from a flat 31% income tax rate across the board, from those on the lowest wage to those earning millions?

    Would you also benefit from the complete privatisation of the NHS? A voucher system allowing you to use other health providers and more charges within the NHS that has been sold off to a mixture of 'corporations and charities'?

    Would you benefit from a 5 year freeze on immigration?

    Now, I will also give you my answers to these questions. That proposed flat tax would personally cost me £3000+ each year in an increase in tax. The privatisation of the NHS (which is currently happening on the sly) but would increase under UKIP would potentially cost me dear in the future, it would certainly cost members of my family who do use the NHS on a regular basis with their various problems. Next year, when my wife applies for the extension of her spouse visa, for that to be denied because there is a 5 year freeze on immigration and for her to be deported, I would lose out in the biggest way possible.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Timmers
    Offline

    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I would be better off with a flat rate of 31% as my tax is higher at the moment on a percentage of my salary, removal of National Insurance would also be a big saving for me.

    I have private medical insurance through the company which a lot of companies would switch to if the NHS was privatised.

    And yes I would love to see a five year freeze on immigration except for skilled workers, spouses and family members.
  3. Markham
    Offline

    Markham Guest

    Kuya, if I thought Ukip stood any chance of forming the next government based on its (disavowed) 2010 manifesto, then I could understand your fears. But I don't believe for one minute that Ukip stands a prayer of a chance of being in charge of the country. However I do think it will gain sufficient MPs to be a very effective coalition partner and it will ensure that Cameron keeps his promise to hold a referendum. [Edit to add] Farage has just finished speaking at a rally in London and has confirmed that that is his intention - that Ukip will be a coalition partner. He also said that Ukip will specifically target Ed Milliband's Doncaster seat next year. It's a bit risky but might pay off as they topped the poll there, just as they did in Newark where there's to be a By-Election.

    The NHS is a basket case. It is over-managed and over-staffed by non-clinicians, people who have no effect on patient outcomes. We really need a return to the 50's and 60's when there matrons on the wards to supervise patient care and workplace cleanliness; replacing them with nursing managers has led to a drop in patient care and a rise of entirely preventable MRSA outbreaks. My own mother contracted MRSA not from surgical procedures but from cross-infection after surgery. And hers was - and is - a common occurrence. My mother paid in to the NHS for over 40 years and the only one time she needed it, it let her down very badly indeed; her contracting MRSA is just the final straw in a catalogue of horrendous errors at one of Britain's leading hospitals. And my daughter spent seven years on a waiting list before she was seen by a neuro-surgeon. So I no longer uphold the NHS as being the best thing in medical care, not by any means. But I would certainly rail against any attempt to privatise it to the American model.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2014
    • Like Like x 1
  4. oss
    Offline

    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Is that something that is about to happen?

    Who is to say, a strong Europe with continued strong German industrial performance might be a good thing regards pension investments, at the moment I am heavily invested in the UK, always have been, but maybe I should consider getting in at the bottom of a European recovery?

    Yeah I know probably fantasy however it's worth a thought.
  5. oss
    Offline

    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Now apart from calling it a basket case, I would agree with you, the sixties and seventies still had most of the matron system, my father was deputy head pharmacist in a Scottish hospital up to the mid seventies after that he himself was ill and was very particular about which hospitals he would be treated in, me I still respect the NHS.

    What went wrong with the NHS?

    Margaret Thatcher and the Tory revolution of the 1980's they created all those freaking managerial posts, they created that culture and everything that we decry about the modern NHS.

    Re MRSA that mostly came about via indiscriminate prescription for several decades, starting in the 50's and 60's, of antibiotics simply because people expected to get a 'cure' even when all that was wrong with them was a viral infection. As a result of most people not following the prescription rules properly multiply resistant strains of various bacteria evolved much to everyone's dismay.

    It might not look it but it is still a hell of a lot better then anything else out there, I would not see the back of our NHS.
  6. Markham
    Offline

    Markham Guest

    I completely agree. Looking back, I do wonder why so many people continue to speak so fondly and hold Thatcher in such high regard. Her only real achievements were prosecuting the war to liberate the Falkland islands and her stance on the EU where she did have quite some success. Her domestic policies were disastrous for the majority of the people. What's unforgivable as far as the British working man is concerned, is that many of her ideas and policies were adopted by Blair - except concerning the EU, of course.
  7. aposhark
    Offline

    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    I voted Tory last GE, but I am cheesed off with their lack of action on immigration and doubt I will vote for them in 2015 unless concrete plans are put in place.
    I am more unhappy with Labour for opening the gates without control years ago.
    I worked overseas years ago but it was a highly specialised job that locals in other countries could not do.
    It seems we have been flooded with Eastern Europeans that have taken the jobs that British people can do.
    Pay rates have decreased significantly because of the influx too.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Markham
    Offline

    Markham Guest

    It is very easy for opponents of immigration controls to blame Ukip for the Home Office's tightening-up of non-EU immigration, but I really think they're shooting at the wrong target. When the Conservatives came to power in 2010, they inherited a situation whereby immigration was completely out of control, a situation created by their predecessors. Blair bribed the business vote by ensuring cheap eastern European labour could pour into the UK, hence the complete lack of controls on migration from those countries that became EU members in 2004. Not only that but getting a settlement visa by a non-EU citizen couldn't be easier throughout the Blair-Brown years. Something had to be done and since they could not stop migrants from within the EU, they had to target non-EU migration if they were to reduce the nett inflow and reduce pressure on public services. Ukip wasn't much of a party back then and its influence was really rather insignificant. But the BNP were very vocal.

    It is also a bit rich for those opposed to Ukip's stance on EU migration to brand them as "racists" or "xenophobes". How many of them (that are opposed to Ukip) are pure-bred descendants of ancient Britons? None, I would suggest!
  9. Kuya
    Offline

    Kuya The Geeky One Staff Member

    My problem with the UKIP approach and the approaches inspired by their influence on the Conservative base, is that we end up with a blunt fix all policy for immigration that causes huge damage to society in general. Like the current £18,600.00 minimum income for spouse visas. Yes, we know this is a result of the lack of controls over European immigration, and we know that with the reduced wages for UK workers, this discriminates against more and more people.

    Though the Irony is that UKIP might actually just cost Tory votes (they didn’t really impact Labours vote that much) and give Ed Milliband a comfortable win in 2015, Ed Milliband looks unlikely to do anything about the EU and EU immigration, plus if TTIP/TAFTA goes through in its current form we could also end up with the same free movement with the USA, producing even more immigration problems for US workers keen to find new work (and free healthcare) in Europe.

    However, that could also play out well for UKIP if after 2015 the level of discontent towards the EU goes through the roof after the effect of TTIP/TAFTA comes into play. US workers could easily take the service jobs that the eastern Europeans don’t currently take (due to their lack of English skills) and that could well drive us out of the EU. These are interesting times, politically I think we’re living in an unstable age as well.
  10. Markham
    Offline

    Markham Guest

    I fear we will see both major parties contesting each other to see which one can produce the most draconian immigration policy in the run up to the next election in an attempt to win back those who supported Ukip.

    I'm not so sure about that. Certainly in the local and Euro elections, Ukip stole Tory votes but, by rights, should have come nowhere in the north - there should be no Ukip councillors or MEPs from those regions. But there are and, I read, their support is growing amongst disaffected Labour supporters.

    And that would simply compound the problem.

    I would hope that Britain would be out of the EU by the time those iniquitous treaties come into force. The longer we leave it, the harder it will become.
  11. Markham
    Offline

    Markham Guest

    Is this an example of what you fear, Kuya, Hinchingbrooke Hospital?

    Hospitals run by doctors, now there's a novel idea! If Hinchingbrooke represents the model to be adopted by Ukip, then bring it on, I say; both patients and the tax payers will benefit. Provided treatment and patient care remains free at the point of delivery, does it really matter how that is achieved?
  12. Kuya
    Offline

    Kuya The Geeky One Staff Member

    Hinchingbrooke is a private partnership operated by the people who worked there for years, which as you know isn’t how privatisation tends to happen. If anything, this hospital is an example of how we should run hospitals, run by health care professionals with an agenda of providing excellent health care, cutting red tape when we can and putting money to the front end services (such as doctors and nurses).

    But we know privatisation of the NHS won’t work like that! Instead we will get companies like Serco and G4S and other massive corporations that somehow get loads of government contracts (it’s as if they had bought politicians off or something) and then show the world how shockingly bad their services actually are.

    And what happens when the NHS is run by a large group of corporations who also own the largest drug manufacturers? Will they try to haggle to get reduced medicines, or will they pay the top whack for medicines?

    This is simply wealth redistribution, taxpayer funded corporations that in turn top up the salaries of politicians who grant contracts and privatise more and more of the state.

    I also find it ironic that the very people calling for ‘small government’ usually like to make what happens in other peoples bedrooms and their private lives the business of the state.
  13. Markham
    Offline

    Markham Guest

    Yes it is and it's not an entirely new idea either: John Lewis has been operating as a private partnership since around 1929. (And in those days the Lewis family were supporters of the Conservative Party one of whom was MP for Colchester.)

    Absolutely! The likes of Capita, Serco and G4S must never ever be allowed to run any part of the NHS. Imagine if G4S operated ambulances, they'd likely dispatch an armoured security van to a pile-up on the M4 and an ambulance to collect the day's takings from Tesco! And whilst on the subject, was it really necessary for London Ambulance Control to send two ambulances to George Michael's north London home yesterday morning? They were, apparently, both tied-up at his address for four hours. Is that because he's rich and famous and how many Londoner's had increased waiting times for their own emergencies as a result?

    Similarly drug and other medical supply companies should be barred for conflict of interest reasons.

    Where did that non-sequitor come from?!! :D
  14. Howerd
    Offline

    Howerd Well-Known Member Trusted Member Lifetime Member

    If Farage is elected Prime Minister and we leave the EU, will Farage cease to employ his German wife and send her back home?
  15. Kuya
    Offline

    Kuya The Geeky One Staff Member

    Was watching some videos of UKIP members calling for small government whilst reading some of their comments about Gays and stuff...
  16. Markham
    Offline

    Markham Guest

    I believe Mrs Farage is no longer employed as his secretary/PA.
  17. Timmers
    Offline

    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I think that is a good move on his part. Its been a sharp learning curve for Mr Farage regarding all the negative press and abuse he received prior to last weeks elections.

    I think he will have learned immensely from his recent experience and come back before the general election with a more voter friendly manifesto to attract even more disgruntled Tory and Labour voters. It is my view that he will water down many of his policies on immigration that people are concerned about but will still make a strong case for leaving the EU.

    Immigration wise, all he has to promise is to shut the door completely on Eastern European migrant workers except for skilled workers and that will make a lot of people happy including my good self. We don't even have to concern ourselves here about our beloved Filipinas being deported and so on, that's just complete nonsense and will never happen.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. Anon220806
    Offline

    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

  19. Timmers
    Offline

    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Joey Barton, not the sharpest knife in the box as the clip highlighted very much.

    I have become more impressed with UKIP as more and more people from their party have appeared in the media giving their views. They come across extremely well just like the lady in the video clip who I felt defended UKIP very well under a barrage of questions from Dimbleby and other members of the panel.

    I'm looking forward to the election next week where UKIP may well gain their first MP, it will be tough as the Tories have a large margin but it is possible.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Timmers
    Offline

    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Good morning and :welcome: back John.

    Would you like to give us an explanation as to why UKIP did better than expected in the recent elections and do you still think UKIP is a racist party having now seen many UKIP members and supporters being interviewed on TV and the like who don't have a hint of racism in them.
    • Like Like x 2
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page