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Wiping of DNA and fingerprint records 'puts public safety at risk'

Discussion in 'General Chit Chat' started by Timmers, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Hundreds of DNA and fingerprint records that could have been held for national security reasons in England and Wales have been deleted, a report reveals.

    Rightly or wrongly I believe that everyone should have their DNA taken at birth, would certainly help convicting criminals in the future.

    I know it can be argued that it is an infringement of your liberties but we must react to the time we are living in.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35783475
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    With a bar code tattoo and RDF chip that would be really cool:)
  3. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    [​IMG]

    No Way!


    The authorities should concentrate on catching criminals,
    not tracking and persecuting the innocent.
  4. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    I have come round to being in favour of an intelligent ID card. Whether our Civil Service has enough intelligence to achieve such a thing is something that I am less sure about, but surely we can do better than relying on the utility companies' billing departments to tell us who is who?
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Your missus could keep track of you Keith with a couple of clicks of the mouse :)
  6. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Like you Andrew I have eventually come round to the idea that ID cards would be a handy tool for a host of things, twenty years ago I was dead against them but you have to move with the times.
  7. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    With DNA and ID cards I am working on the basis that if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    • Your DNA might be catalogued for future harvesting by the EU, if we don't vote out.
    • ID cards might have some benefits, but how long before the information is misused, and there is a mandatory £100 fine for leaving it at home.
  9. walesrob
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    walesrob Administrator Staff Member

    Problem is, the government can't be trusted to hold all that data. Laptops on trains, hacking and all that.
    • Agree Agree x 5
  10. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    DNA evidence is often misused and very often misunderstood.

    I can guarantee that your DNA could be found in the strangest of places for the strangest of reasons, you leave traces of yourself everywhere.

    Context is key, you should not be subjected to questioning just because your DNA was found somewhere that you don't remember being.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    The fact is we have nothing in the fight against crime that is as conclusive as DNA evidence, makes a huge difference to criminal court cases.

    I do not believe for one moment that my DNA is anywhere where I have not been.
  12. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Skin flakes on a bus or train, picked up on someone else's jacket dropped off somewhere they visit.

    Stuff you throw out in the garbage ends up on a waste tip that you have never seen, something gets picked up by a bird and dropped several miles away.

    Hair complete with roots gets left in a hotel the next guest has a chance of picking up some of that even though the room was cleaned, no cleaning is perfect.

    Some old clothes get given to charity, yes you might wash them before you hand them in, but PCR can amplify just a few tiny strands of DNA.

    I'm not even trying Tim.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    In that case why do criminals not use the above in their defence, after all you are saying anyone's DNA could be anywhere?
  14. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    They do.
  15. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Context is key, people are often incriminated simply on DNA evidence because their DNA is on record for previous convictions.

    The polymerase chain reaction is used to amplify vanishingly small amounts of DNA, many cases of evidence tampering and evidence contamination have come to light.

    Having a national database of all DNA could make the search harder not easier, because you will get so many additional false positives due to the way evidence is collected.

    The problem is that everyone sees DNA as an open and shut case, including the police, it's the easy answer so context is abused and they don't investigate properly.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

  17. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I look at like this, you could probably count on one hand the people who are in jail because of DNA evidence which was wrong.
  18. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Basically Tim the idea that everyone should be in a DNA database is naïve, it stems from not understanding the technology or the processes and procedures that surround the technology.

    That assertion is quite simply nonsense.
  19. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    It's been known for criminals to go gather a cigarette butt from a public ashtray and leave it the crime scene to provide misleading dna evidence. Im not a fan of a national dna or fingerprint database. Smacks too much of big brother to me. I would accept an identity card but would be worried about it being misused. In the USA for example plenty of agencies require your social security number when they have absolutely no business having it.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  20. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I'm quite sure that there are more criminals behind bars now because of DNA.

    Sounds to me like you are dead against it being used in court.

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