General Election - June 8th

No. I am not "anti-British". But my father, uncles and cousins did not fight and die in WW2 for me to surrender to the sort of people who label dissent as "un-patriotic" now.

Welcome to Remain, Mark. Very glad to have you.

Luke 15: 7

Almost makes me wish I voted to remain. Oh, I did. With a lot of the above in mind.

Just wondering, though, is it ok to say Hard Brexit now? I usually get pulled up on it...

When are you going to get it into your thick skull that Brexit is happening and the debate is over, the only debate left is the terms of our exit from the EU.

You can moan, cry and debate all you like but what is done is done, the forthcoming election will further strengthen Mrs May's hand and will be the icing on the cake for the Brexiteers.

And just to make you happy there is a new picture below for your avatar bluebird, I'm fed up with seeing your ? as apt as it is

OK, so we're coming down to calling people thick now are we?

I've changed my avatar to one of your new heroes, the Remainer Theresa May.

Nonsense, you are highly deluded.

Why would any of your relatives have surrendered control of their lives to a new German led European Reich masquerading as the EU.

Are we back on Patriotism now?

No, back to reality.

That's quite vague.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
-- Samuel Johnson (Boswell's Life of Johnson)

I am not a Remainer, never have been and never will be. I have been implacably opposed to the EU ever since Major and Maastricht. But neither am so in awe of my chosen party that I am blind to their faults.

Your quote is actually incorrect and should read "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" . Johnson was opposed to what he called "false patriotism" but he valued what he considered "true" self-professed patriotism.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/f...okescreen-pm-ponders-expenses-scandal-losses/

​

So what is wrong with being Patriotic Andrew, please explain.

Are you implying I am a "scoundrel" because I am proud to be English, proud of British culture, proud of my Homeland, proud of my Mum.

Are you implying that I am a "scoundrel" because I prefer my home country to be controlled by my own countrymen for the benefit of its people, rather than it being handed over to an undemocratic elitist EU oligarchy who put their own friends and socialist ideology first.

Back to reality please, enough of your pompous guff!

Please see above. ↑

I was born, lucky me
In a land that I love
Though I am poor, I am free
When I grow I shall fight
For this land I shall die
Let her sun never set

The problem with patriotism is that it allows the State to control its citizens. Patriotism can be easily turned into ugly things.

Like Methersgate, I have a direct relative who died "for King and country". My Mam never knew her dad, my grandad never knew his daughter. My mother grew up in very poor conditions, having lost her husband for her country, her country offered little in terms of support.

People here, and elsewhere, always make the unfounded claim that the soldiers were fighting to not be part of an integrated EU. Many fought because they would have been ostracized if they had not.

My gran was 95 last month, still going strong but has been a widow, struggling to make ends meet, for the last 73 years. She voted to remain, her reasoning - no more war widows.

Luckily, none of us (apart from the Forces) has lived through war. It allows us to be nostalgic, romantic and abstract about it. We see the Wars with 20-20 hindsight vision. We see the Germans as bad guys to this day, but the Americans with their atomic bombs (129000 - 226000 civilians killed) and their napalm (500,000 plus killed as the Americans fought for ideological reasons) are our friends.

The irony being that herding Jewish people into death camps was, for some of the SS, done with a sense of patriotism. Some of the Americans dropping napalm bombs on Vietnam also did so with a sense of patriotism.

There's hundreds and thousands of planets out there, capable of sustaining life. On a clear night, you can see stars light years away, and there's a strong possibility that we are not alone. In the unlikely event that we get a visit, patriotism will take a new "larger" form.

Conversely, a Scot who is patriotic about being British could find himself part of a smaller nation soon. One day, his descendants will be patriotic about the smaller country.

In both hypothetical situations, the patriot is living on the same piece of land. But his sense of patriotism is determined by events around him.

You ask if I am anti-British. In some respects I am - purely because the notion that my thought process can be influenced by the Government of the land that I was born in (lucky me) all for a false sense of belonging to an entity that is as artificial as they come. I am anti-nationalism.

Take a look at the map of Africa. These countries didn't exist until the Europeans "colonized" them. Look at those countries with borders that are straight lines, Namibia, Zambia, Niger. Who determined that some tribes would now be Namibian and that the others would be Angolan? It's a ridiculous concept there, which makes it a ridiculous concept here, even with our natural border.

Patriotism is false, it's a tool that has been used worldwide for evil purposes. Patriotism is 1 step from Nationslism. Nationalism is 1 step from Fascism.

I'm merely one of 7 billion people trying to enjoy life as best as I can, and I am thankful that the evolution process has turned my species into something that is highly intelligent. Just wish we could lose the tribalism - that is all.

I don't know Theresa, you go for a frolic through the White House, holding hands, skipping.

And then the woman he refuses to shake hands with gets this

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trump-puts-eu-ahead-of-britain-in-trade-queue-l7t8zwn7k

Still feeling patriotic? We don't need them right? Nor do we want the Americans. Quick, someone send Liam Fox to North Korea - there's gold in there them hills.

Leavers knew what they were voting for, Obama was lying just to help out his mate Cameron wasn't he? Well, wasn't he?

They won, I lost - I should just get behind Maggie May, she's in control.

I only wish I knew this before stupidly voting to remain in the most stable trading bloc in the world. Plan B Maggie?

A fellow student at my daughter's Politics class at university a few years ago wrote his final paper on the UK's political future and which he argued the benefits of euthanasia to ensure that the young's interests were always paramount. People would loose the ability to vote at 50, retire at 60 and be killed on their 65th birthday. That student is apparently now a Lib-Dem candidate for a west country seat.

Happy St George's day @Methersgate @Bluebird71

Read and absorb the words below from our greatest leader of all time Sir Winston Churchill;

"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England."

Extremely interesting, especially given he is now a Lib Dem candidate, if he is a true Lib Dem he will change his mind on euthanasia at the age of 64

I really dislike any ageism connected with the voting in the UK, to me everyone has one vote, @Bluebird71 keeps banging on about getting the youngsters to vote, its up to the bloody lazy youngsters themselves to get off their backside and take the time to take the short walk to the Polling Station.

If the kids have to be encouraged to register to vote and actually cast their vote then that tells me they are not interested.