Brexit and Scexit

I happily engage with people who have a different opinion to me on other forums. Here, if you disagree with reasons (as I try to do) you're labelled a troll and insults are thrown at you.

In the space of a week I was, by the same poster, labelled a Communist AND an Osbourne (George not Ozzie) supporter! It was obvious to me early on that @Markham was a troll. I didn't want to give that label because it would appear that I was just saying that because I disagreed with him.

He counters any argument with flimsy evidence - such as the time he used a Tory ad to back up his claims about Corbyn wanting to abolish all armies. When I linked in Corbyn's full speech, it invalidated his statement that was based on propaganda and so he put me on ignore.

His other methodology is to deflect any argument by changing the subject and throwing in red herrings.

The other method is to use ad hominem attacks to attack the proposer of an argument, and not the argument itself. He reckoned that I wanted the economy to fail! I pointed out that I am running a business, so it makes no sense for me to hope that! Not seen for dust.

On other political forums he would be found out so quickly. It's ok to disagree, but give some facts to show why you have formed the opinion you have formed. Markham' arguments are nowhere near that standard. In politics, there is no right nor wrong, and a good debate can see people change their minds. The "debates" from the Tory Minister of information are as amusing as they are bereft of logical or critical thinking. They are, however, abundant of an air of superiority.

Just because someone is articulate, it doesn't mean they cannot be foolish.

I rarely comment in these political hand-bag fights either, because I know I'm right, so what is the point in arguing about it ?

I disagree.

@Markham provides a balanced viewpoint, presents his case well, and actively encourages moderate discussion.

If by "He" you mean me, then why would I accuse you of something you haven't done?

Ah Markham mine. The misquote was the point.

Have you ever disagreed with him? I have, and it's met with condescending replies, insults and marks for spelling!

Have you tried to engage him in a debate where he disagrees with something you say in a polite manner? I have.

Have you seen how he deflects any argument that he is losing by throwing in some red herrings? I have.

I've disagreed with you, and @Timmers - often we come to an end with a smile on our faces and we agree to disagree. That has never happened to me with @Markham who, if you know the true definition of trolling, is quite adept at that.

Witb you and Timmers, it's rarely an attack on the person - you are sporting about the debate.

Markham merely makes a claim about his challenger for being anti-patriotic, or a Liberal, or laughs about a mistype.

If you agree with all that he posts, then yes - you would suggest he brings balance.

This was always my main worry..

Macron Threatens to Set Calais Migrants Loose on Britain

Marine Le Pen’s globalist rival in the French presidential elections, Emmanuel Macron, has promised to rip up border controls in France, potentially opening Britain up to a new wave of illegal migration.
The establishment favourite in the French presidential race asserted that the Le Touquet treaty, under which Britain operates border controls in the migrant hotspot Calais, should be “back on the table.”

In an interview with TF1, the former Rothschild banker said the deal “must be renegotiated, especially the parts that deal with the fate of isolated child migrants.

“There is no easy solution to the migrant crisis. If there was one, it would have been found.”

Downing Street is likely to be concerned by the statement, as Macron had previously sworn to keep the migration agreement in place just two months ago, in talks with Prime Minister Theresa May.

He said, “If there was a simple answer [to Calais’ migrant crisis], it would have been found. I want to put the Touquet treaty back on the table and to renegotiate the agreement.”

A Downing Street spokesman said, “We have always been very clear that protecting and enhancing the shared border between the UK and France at Calais is in both the UK and France’s best interests.”

A conservative spokesman said, “This just shows that we need the strong and stable leadership of Theresa May, and why voters need to give her the best possible hand to negotiate in Europe.”

“We have always been very clear that protecting and enhancing the shared border between the UK and France at Calais is in both the UK and France’s best interests. By contrast, Jeremy Corbyn is not strong enough to keep our borders secure.”

French sociologist and writer Mathieu Bock-Côté has warned that Macron embodies “all that France wants to extricate itself from.”

“Excessive globalism and cultural leftism are in contradiction with the aspirations that seem to come from the depths of the country,” he wrote in Le Figaro.

The frontrunner in the election, Macron has previously declared that Europe has “entered a world of great migrations” inescapable for the continent, and which will only accelerate.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/05/01/macron-set-calais-migrants-loose-uk/

Kippers?

oh lordy lordy

I discovered sardines on toast too late in life.

Never to old to learn.

The only migrant 'crisis' that I can see is that caused by France and other continental EU countries . Time to pull up the drawbridge... as well as throwing out the uninvited human detritus currently here.

If you'll permit me, that's a tad extreme: Hollande is a weak President who allowed himself to be bullied by Merkel and it is mostly thanks to him - and her - that the FN is in contention for the Presidency. I've no objection to allowing orphaned migrant children to be given shelter in the UK, providing they really are children under the age of 16. Maybe setting the age limit at puberty would be seen to be fair.

Well as always, that is my opinion, and I will not be changing it.

So the EU now wants €100 billion (£92 billion) from the UK, effectively doubling the amount suggested by Juncker a month or so ago. No real surprise that Germany and France pushed to add a further €50 billion to our bill but many in Britain will be shocked and upset by Beata Szydło, Poland's Prime Minister, who joined with Merkel and Hollande in making these new, frankly outrageous demands. Hollande's part in this is surely pay-back for Britain enticing French millionaires to leave Paris with their money and establish themselves in London during his Presidency and Merkel is, of course, merely proving that Germany - ie she - rules Europe; the Poles have the most to lose with Britain's departure.

Barnier, the EU's chief negotiator, in answer to a question from Sky News at a press conference in Brussels this morning, said that no final figure for Britain's "contribution" has yet been reached and it will only be announced when the negotiations commence. This of course provides further opportunities for the apparatchiks to further load the bill.

There will inevitably and sadly be some bad feeling expressed towards Poles living in the UK - who, incidentally, outnumber other EU migrants settled in the UK by a large margin. My Polish mother, were she still alive today, would be appalled by her motherland's actions, as would any remaining Polish wartime émigrés. And Poland is, by far, the major recipient of EU funds receiving approximately €17.5 billion nett (in 2014), according to Wikipedia.

The additional amount being demanded is to plug a black hole in the EU's finances and to pay future farm subsidies. Britain is also to be denied her rightful share of EU assets such as buildings whose construction was partly funded by Britain.

But this is all a ploy and part of the EU Commission's campaign to frighten and bully Britons - it may even be an attempt to influence the outcome of the General Election; I suspect Martin Selmayr, Juncker's German chief of staff, is behind it. He privately boasts at manipulating journalists into reporting fake news and is believed to be the source of the biased and inaccurate account of Juncker's dinner with Theresa May last Friday.

This bullying and deliberate stream of misinformation will continue certainly until the negotiations start - negotiations Brussels wants to ban Theresa May from being part of. But if the EU maintains its current stance, the UK will simply walk away without any agreement and that will be in nobody's best interest and especially those of German car manufacturers, French wine and cheese producers, Belgian chocolatiers, Dutch horticulturists, Italian food manufacturers, Danish farmers, Spanish fruit growers or any other EU exporter whose goods we buy.

I will be very interested to see what the UK does pay in the end, its the EU's last opportunity to stitch us up, is I was the EU I would be worried about who is going to make up the share of the UKs EU payments when we leave.

Are we not (the rest of) the EU's most lucrative market ?