Brexit and Scexit

Harley Facades chose the cheapest possible option that met the council's requirement for the tower block to be more visually pleasing, Reynobond PE. By making that choice over Reynobond FR - the fire-resistant analog - they saved themselves just £6,250 - the cost of a week's holiday in the south of France for Harley's owner and his wife. The management company saved themselves and the council just £200,000 by not installing a sprinkler system - a decision the council's leader sought to pass-on to the residents (in a TV interview on Thursday) whom he claimed didn't want a sprinkler system installed because it "would be too disruptive". That statement may or may not be true, nevertheless it was highly insensitive for him to make it at this time.

You want someone else to blame? How about the London Fire Brigade's role in all this. It signed-off on the facade, it signed-off on the lack of a sprinkler system, it signed-off on the wholly inadequate fire escape, it signed-off on the refurbishment plan both before at the design stage and after it had been completed and it advised that residents should remain in their flats in the event of a fire; it also signed-off on the reduced emergency services' access caused by having to accommodate more buildings in the immediate area around the tower including a recently-built college. Furthermore, London Fire Brigade doesn't own any platforms capable of getting anywhere near the top of Grenfell Tower - and just about every other tower lock in the capital. The tallest one available had to travel from Surrey and it could only manage around one-third of the height. New York has monster platforms that are capable of reaching the top of buildings taller than Grenfell Tower.

Or how about the architects, Studio E who specified the use of Celotex PIR thermal insulation foam that was sandwiched to the building by the powder-painted aluminium facade. This product was tested in 2011 by the University of Central Lancashire's Centre for Fire and Hazard Science as part of a study of insulants and found to give of toxic fumes (cyanide) in event of fire.

This level of incompetence one would expect to find in Manila, not London.

Here..I noted that A1 and A2 is a classification for non combustible material..
B is combustible but with very limited contribution to fire.
C...Is Crap!! lol


https://www.peroni.com/lang_UK/_download/EN_Reaction_to_Fire_Classification.pdf

Now I read that Beneath the Reynobond, and fixed to the outside of the walls of the flats, was Celotex...
Hang on..Let me See what that is!

Why are we doing this in this thread?

Celotex..

Tower insulation firm:
Material will burn if exposed to fire of sufficient heat
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...l_burn_if_exposed_to_fire_of_sufficient_heat/

Very well said Mark and oss.

This is from the website of Harley Facades. It seems remarkable (in the American sense of that word - "despicable") that they have not taken it down:

http://www.harleyfacades.co.uk/File/Grenfell Tower.pdf

From within the facade cladding. Reynobond PE has a polyethylene core which is flammable. Wood battens were also used in the facade's construction.

Now the last time I checked, Fridges aren't usually suspended outdoors by sky-hooks. So how did a small domestic fire caused by a faulty fridge manage to spread to the flammable core of the exterior cladding through some six inches of reinforced concrete - surely the replacement windows weren't uPVC glazed in plastic?

We're told by both Rydon, the main contractor, and Harley that their works passed the council's building control. Presumably the work was inspected at intervals (if not, why the hell not?) but did the council's building control inspectors feel under any pressure from their bosses to pass the works and not make (costly) waves?

I suspect we will find ,if it was a fridge that the fire "escaped" through an open window and was enough to ignite the cladding above

It was a hot night. Windows will have been open.

Perhaps there were several butane canisters strapped to the fridge!

But seriously, if a fridge overheats it gets hot, Freon (or todays PC equivalant) ain't going to explode in a massive fireball.

Just saying...​

It's so much easier to explain a chip pan fire.

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gender equality not hi on our list then

For F*** sake man...Your Prime minister is a damned woman!!! lol.

A very hopeful and positive article, that this misguided divorce built of ignorance, deliberate misinformation and bigotry will wither on the vine.

Before several of you jump down my throat, I'm suggesting that sufficient numbers among Brexit voters were swayed by much of the above, but not all. Just sufficient to make 52% and not 48%.

The EU needs to be changed. Stomping away from the negotiating table - because we don't like people in burkhas, because we object to others making our laws (as if we really ever had a say in that anyway, or ever will), or because we want to regain our sovereignty (last time I checked, HM The Queen was still in the job) - takes all our influence away, and denies us the chance to lead Europe into a better partnership.

We are a disparate group of nations, but the benefits of a European trade agreement far outweigh the negatives, and those negatives could have been worked on, but not from the outside.

The nations of Europe have always had respect for Britain, if not always affection, but the events of the past year have undoubtedly become akin to watching a favourite uncle shoot himself in the foot. Repeatedly, and against better judgement.

I'm proud to be English. More proud I think than I would be were I any other nationality. But lately, when I see from a distance how Britain is dividing and dividing itself into splinters and shards of animosity and vitriol, I wonder if the Britain and Britons I am so proud of still exist, Brexit or not.

I feel that Britain as a whole is on the verge of a collective mental breakdown. Everyone is at one another's throats for having nothing more than differing opinions.

I hope, no matter what the future holds, that we rediscover the stoicism to deal with adversity, the humour that has always accompanied it, and the tolerance, sense of fairness and all-round pleasantness that always underlined it.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-to-a-3-0-defeat-in-the-first-round?CMP=fb_gu

Perhaps the gift of a hiking stick from Barnier was actually meant more as a mobility aid, to assist the future crippled British economy in its slow, ponderous pace?

Or perhaps David Davis can stand waving it menacingly on the beaches of Walmington-on-Sea, confident in our assertion that They Shall Not Pass!

Tusk and Juncker REJECT May's EU migrants plan in bid to make Brexit impossible.

BRUSSELS chief Donald Tusk this afternoon launched an extraordinary attack on Theresa May's approach to Brexit, telling the prime minister her stance on citizens' rights is creating a "worsening situation".


In a remarkably candid intervention the EU Council chief says the prime minister's offer over the futures of EU citizens in Britain was "below our expectations" and said the bloc would fight for a significantly better deal.

Amid extraordinary scenes he told Mrs May her opening gambit "risks worsening the situation" and swatted aside the importance of the UK by saying Brexit discussions had "taken up very little of our time" during the summit.

He told reporters: "Citizens’ rights are the number one priority for the EU27 and we have made our position clear. We want to ensure the full rights for EU and UK citizens after Brexit.



Donald Tusk laid into Theresa May's plans
"My first impression is that the UK’s offer is below our expectations and that it risks worsening the situation of citizens, but it will be for our negotiating team to analyse the offer line by line once they receive it on paper. As a matter of fact Brexit took up very little time at this Council."

The Polish eurocrat added: "It’s obvious that the impact of Brexit in the citizens’ rights area is negative and our role is to reduce these negative, but unfortunately objective outcomes and effects of Brexit.

"If we compare that, it’s of course just the first impression, if we compare the current level of citizens’ rights to what we have heard from the British prime minister it’s obvious that this is about reducing the citizens’ rights of the EU citizens in the UK and our role during the negotiations is to reduce this risk."



Donald Tusk and Jean-Claude Juncker have made it nearly impossible
GETTY

Juncker and Tusk news conference at the EU summit in Brussels
EU officials this afternoon complained that the offer from Mrs May was "not very generous at all" but insisted the other 27 leaders had barely discussed it because there was "no appetite to spend too much time" on Brexit at the summit.

Lifting the lid on the awkward after dinner talks, a senior diplomat said: "She explained but clearly leaders were not in much of an appetite to spend too much time on it. There was not a debate - she raised it and then left."

Pressed on the fact there surely must have been some discussion of such a key issue, the official replied: "There was no debate on the substance. There was a short discussion but not a negotiation. Some people took the floor after she left, but not on the substance."

The senior diplomat also revealed that the furious response of EU citizens' group The3Million, which is the largest europhile organisation in the UK, to Mrs May's proposals may have influenced how European leaders reacted to them.