Labour's Disreputable Leadership

"actual culprits of the financial crash"??? Huh, what are you smoking, Keith? The present government were not in power at that time! And just so you know, Alex Salmond is a Member of Parliament for the Scottish Nationalist Party and is nothing to do with the Tories!

Not according an internal survey carried-out recently and leaked to the Guardian. The nett membership is actually on the decline - many are joining, predominantly from London and the south-east but just as many are leaving.

The all-too-familiar mantra of the proponents of Big Government. You'll undoubtedly be scrapping all G4S' contracts; will that mean that the government will be running the country's prisons and the related costs will not be a charge on the tax-payer?

Only a cynic would hold such a view! The truth is that all governments need (and want) strong opposition to hold them to account and keep them focused. The ONLY effective opposition Labour has managed since the election has been in the House of Lords!

Oh diddums, look at all the nasty people ganging-up against poor Mr Corbyn!

We are not talking about more likely. We are talking about what is possible. If the people who do not vote start voting, they will probably not vote Conservative. They will vote UKIP, Greens or Labour.


"The only newspaper that is supporting Corbynism is the Morning Star, the mainstream labour-supporting newspapers, the Daily Mirror and the Guardian, are supporting the more moderate PLP rather than its leader. Corbyn is the architect of his own misfortune with some of the statements he has made but also the machinations and briefings of those close to him - McDonnell, Abbott and especially Seumus Milne."

I am not talking about support. I am not not even talking about criticism of Labours' new direction. I'm talking about some of the disgusting attacks on him personally that go way too far. Even someone who is right-wing would surely deplore them. This is my problem with many of your posts.

There is no such thing as Corbynism.

"Correction: A year ago Britain had a Socialist Labour leader and one who was infinitely more credible than Corbyn. Big difference is that Miliband was a 'team player' whilst Corbyn frequently voted against his party in Commons Divisions."

You've contradicted yourself in your paragraph. Milibands' credibility depended on his ability to wrest the party from the career tory-lites that Blair infested the party with. He never had any with me.

There is no point in seizing power if to do this to you take the easy option and sell your soul.

"Unfortunately for you, political commentators do not agree with you. There was an article in the Guardian last week noting that lifelong (working class) Labour supporters in the north of the country were leaving the Labour Party just as quickly as the metropolitan intelligentsia were joining in the south."

Unfortunately for me? Bizarre comment.

It's early days yet. When the Labour Party prove they are an effective voice for the disenfranchised, ad not just a joke novelty act which yes they could become of their own faults, people will jump on board. Yes of course this might otherwise happen. One article at this point, accurate or not, doesn't prove much.

"The majority are political centrists."

The majority of those that vote seem to be. Now can that be said for those who don't? Who knows.

I think this comment is revealing of many things.

KA"increased majority" sentence should read "was economical with the truth (Tax credits, student maintenance grants, Nursing Bursarys the actual culprits of the financial crash Alex Sammond etc ) and was rewarded by a TINY majority"

No it was all those socialists in the financial community what dun it bastards and it was the Tories the "positive campaigners " who sent a fortune advertising Alex Sammond the not leader of the SNP

KA" The Party is growing monthly"

Well you cant ague with unatributable leaks they just must be true ...oh wait a min could there be a sub-text agenda heaven forbid

KA ".theres not much security for Patriotic citizens in the destruction of our public services being contracted out to the likes of G4S et al for profit and abuse"

No with the current Governments record on efficiancy it would be cheaper no share holders to pay CEO,s bonus ect G4S and the like on the other hand unmanaged will still be charging for monitoring prisoners that have died or been released thankyou very much oh and there was the olimpics and the army lucky for the tax payer that

KA "the last thing they all want is is a strong democratic opposition"

Or a realist The Westminster Power Elite just want the apperance of opposition not actual opposition

KA "hence the non stop spurious attacks and narrative creation by Murdock and right wing commentaters like yourself under the guise of support for the Blairite Empire lost"

Run out of aguements then why dont you just correct my spelling instead of trawling the net in your endless fascination of Jezer

As I said, the majority of the electorate is centrist and, at the moment, the Tories have more or less sole-occupancy of the political centre ground - as well as their traditional right of centre holdings. Provided they continue to appeal to the centrists, they will attract more and more voters.

I take your point but the personal attacks on him are as nothing compared to those made against his own MPs by his supporters in Momentum and Stop The War Coalition. He says he doesn't do personal attacks, he has no need to because he has an army of foul-mouthed misogynistic activists that he can call upon to tweet-bomb the likes of Stella Creasy and Liz Kendall with vile threats and messages. Like it or not, this is the new politics of Jeremy Corbyn.

As I am sure you realise, that is a shorthand term for the kind of politics favoured by the leader of the Labour Party. First heard (by me) on an edition of "This Week" at the time of the Labour Party Conference.

We will see but I suggest we don't hold our breath!

I do think that the moderates in the PLP will wait until after the elections this May before deciding whether to force new elections for the leader of the Labour Party, or hold elections for the as-yet-non-existent post of Leader of the PLP, or form a breakaway party a la Soc-Dems. The status quo will probably not prevail much after the summer.

It's revealing of only one thing: sarcasm.

"As I said, the majority of the electorate is centrist"

And as I have said, that cannot be proven. You mean those that bother to vote.

"and, at the moment, the Tories have more or less sole-occupancy of the political centre ground - as well as their traditional right of centre holdings. Provided they continue to appeal to the centrists, they will attract more and more voters."

Doubtful, to the point of being wildly optimistic. I don't think anyone will see the Tories as a centre party. Austerity, savage cuts to public services and attacks on welfare claimants and those who receive sickness benefit are not centrist policies. Four years of no in-work benefits to Europeans and the 18,600 a year rule are not centrist policies.

"I take your point but the personal attacks on him are as nothing compared to those made against his own MPs by his supporters in Momentum and Stop The War Coalition."

Crude and instant deflection.

"He says he doesn't do personal attacks, he has no need to because he has an army of foul-mouthed misogynistic activists that he can call upon to tweet-bomb the likes of Stella Creasy and Liz Kendall with vile threats and messages. Like it or not, this is the new politics of Jeremy Corbyn."

So are you saying Corbyn orchestrated it? If it was Blair involved then I wouldn't be entirely surprised. I think it's highly doubtful. If it was true then Corbyn would be in jail by now. I must say that if you have any concrete evidence, you should produce it to the authorities.

No orchestration is needed. There are a lot of extremely annoyed people in the UK at the moment. You seem to underestimate this. The establishment seems to underestimate this. We are entering strange and maybe dangerous times.

Look at America. Trump has been similarly underestimated, yet now suddenly he's come from nowhere. Political commentators didnt see that coming. It can happen here, too. The landscape can change, and those who only keep a rigid view of the landscape will be blind to it. Like Kettley before the 1987 storm.

"As I am sure you realise, that is a shorthand term for the kind of politics favoured by the leader of the Labour Party. First heard (by me) on an edition of "This Week" at the time of the Labour Party Conference."

There is no Corbynism. Labour hasn't got off the ground yet. There isn't enough to speak of yet.

"I do think that the moderates in the PLP will wait until after the elections this May before deciding whether to force new elections for the leader of the Labour Party, or hold elections for the as-yet-non-existent post of Leader of the PLP, or form a breakaway party a la Soc-Dems. The status quo will probably not prevail much after the summer."

First, it was weeks, then a month, now you give it to the summer. Next you'll see a five year plan.

Out of the three, the third option is most likely. A return to a tory-lite approach will spell disaster for the country.

The Guardian reports that Corbyn's team is already effectively 'raising the white flag in advance' of the May elections. The Shadow Cabinet was briefed last week that the Party is predicted to lose all its remaining 15 seats in the Scottish Parliament, mostly to the SNP but one or two may fall to the Tories. Also, falling support for the party in Wales will cause it to lose control of the Welsh Assembly in what would be Labour's worst ever result in the Province. And it will lose control of at least 16 councils in England. It might, just might fare better in the London Mayoral election where Sadiq Khan is putting-up a strong challenge to the Tory candidate, Zac Goldsmith. It kind of makes a nonsense of claims by Corbyn, after the Oldham by election in December, that the party is enthusing a new generation of voters who have engaged with his "new politics", doesn't it!

A report by senior Labour chiefs into why Labour lost the last election completely contradicts the findings by the recently-ennobled Margaret Beckett into the same subject. The Beckett dossier, published last week, and which praised Ed Miliband and his policies, said the Conservatives spent their way to victory, and denied Labour had been abandoned by Middle England, has been branded a "whitewash" by the party chiefs. What is amusing is that the Labour chiefs' report acknowledges that Ed's credibility on the economy was partly to blame for the party's electoral defeat and yet his economic "plan" was rather saner than his successor's!

Why don't you just post a link to the Guardian and stop your myopic Daily Babble.

I notice you don't comment on the newspapers that talk of Conservative infighting over Europe, yet again.

Hate to tell you, but Scotland is more determined than ever to go its own way after broken promises narrowly kept it in the Union. They don't want any truck with the Westminster elite who don't care about them. They dont need to vote for any english party. I don't blame them. It's a matter of time before it leaves the Union and good luck to them.

The May elections don't mean very much for Labour. It's too early. A small proportion of the voters will vote. It's more interesting to see how other parties will do.

A whitewash? Quelle surprise. What did you expect, the truth?

As the second and third words of my post do form the link to the relevant article in the Guardian, the myopia of which you speak is obviously not mine!

The title of this thread is "Labour's Disreputable Leadership". If you want to start a discussion on Cameron's masterclass in how not to get what you want in negotiations, then do so!

Independence is a matter for the Scots to decide. Just as long as they understand that the financial umbilical cord to the Treasury in London will be severed should they choose that path.

Are you Seamus Milne's scriptwriter?! On the contrary, the May elections will be a vote of confidence - or otherwise - in Labour's new leadership. That is how the PLP and most of the constituency Labour parties will interpret the results.

Well, no. But I didn't expect Labour to leak the results of its own internal investigation - which contradicts Beckett's "official" report in every single aspect - so soon after her's was released.

I saw it. You missed the word 'just'. Why post the link and repeat the article? That was my point.

So you've had myopia over your myopia! Hilarious!

The rest of your 'points' are just the usual half-baked propaganda. I'll leave you to your pointless marketing campaign.

It's both. And neither.

What has Kettley got to do with the 1987 storm? More to the point, what has the 1987 storm got to do with what is under discussion here?

See, here's the problem: The Labour Party published a Manifesto of its policies and its proposed programme for government in time for the 2015 General Election. Under the Party's own rules, that Manifesto continues to reflect the party's policies until such time as they are changed by its Congress. But the party leader is at odds with much of his party's agreed policies - nothing new there he's a well-known serial rebel. He seems to think that because he's now the leader he can change or make party policy "on the hoof", by announcing it in a TV interview for instance such as he did recently regarding his desire for a Irish-style power-sharing arrangement of the Falkland Islands with Argentina. This despite it being Labour Party policy that it would be for the Falkland Islanders themselves to determine the issue of sovereignty, not central government, and the last time the Islanders were asked (in 2013), only one person out of the 3000 inhabitants voted for Argentine rule.

Under Corbyn the Labour Party is becoming alarmingly undemocratic but then neither Stalin nor Putin are known democrats but both are admired by Corbyn and his followers. Some might even say "revered".

Let's not forget that Corbyn did not have the strength of character to impose his will on his frontbench team - or his backbenchers - and enforce it with a Three-Line Whip in the Syria debate. Instead he gave his MPs a free vote but then had his aides threaten retribution to those who would vote against him and he did nothing to stop his activists threatening and make vile and repugnant tweets to his MPs. I recall that Stella Creasy's north London Constituency office had to be closed for a while as Corbynistas were threatening her staff. He is a weak and cowardly man who has more than met his match in Hillary Benn. But I suspect he is merely a puppet being manipulated by the far more intelligent Milne and Lansman.

I note that some commentators are proffering the notion that a coup will overthrow Corbyn with Tom Watson emerging as the new leader.

Oh and why is that? I can well believe that such would not be to the liking of Corbyn's followers - and you do seem to be a fellow traveller, so such is simply your personal opinion.

It's part of Netiquette, being a good Net Citizen - providing a link to those who want to read the full article whilst giving a precis for everyone else.

Providing you completed this website's registration form truthfully then you would not have even been born at the time the loony left last ruled this country. Most of the rest of us were wage-earning adults at the time and can readily conclude that that was a period of history that really should not be repeated.

A Do-do more like

"Oh and why is that? I can well believe that such would not be to the liking of Corbyn's followers - and you do seem to be a fellow traveller, so such is simply your personal opinion."

You'd better explain exactly what you mean by traveller. I am not sure what way to take that comment. I am not a member of the travelling community.

I do not follow Corbyn. It's obvious Labour has massive problems, but not in the ridiculous way you have portrayed them. It's far fetched.

You don't know anything of my political background. Not everyone sees politics like blindly following a football team.

Pray tell, what power sharing agreement is in operation in Ireland? I don't think your friend Dodds or even the Irish Taoiseach would see it that way! I suggest you look at the Good Friday agreement properly before you make such statements.

"Providing you completed this website's registration form truthfully then you would not have even been born at the time the loony left last ruled this country. Most of the rest of us were wage-earning adults at the time and can readily conclude that that was a period of history that really should not be repeated."

I thought that Thatcher came to power in May 1979. I completed the registration truthfully. I think you don't know your history. Your point is patronising and insulting. I don't wish to be engaged in an argument, as perhaps that's what you wish. Connecting Labour today with the 1970s is insane. It's like connecting Cameron with the miner's strike. Or Labour with causing the world Economic crisis. It's just perception and marketing.

You completely misunderstand my point about it being disastrous. If people's concerns cannot be articulated democratically, there is trouble. Watch Poland. Labour aren't fit for power. Their job is to represent those with no voice. It always has been.

I hope I have made my points clear. I would like clarification of your slur, and then I'll leave you on your Three Minutes' Hate trip.

Please note I said "fellow traveller" and if you don't understand the meaning of that phrase, might I suggest you look it up.

Really? You're putting-up a remarkably good defence of him and the far left.

From what you've written, it's fairly obvious that you're neither a Ukipper nor a Tory!! And probably not a centrist either.

Here are instances where the truth is stranger than fiction! No slanted spinning is necessary!

Might I suggest you pursue Mr Corbyn for his answer to that as he reportedly employed that metaphor quite recently.

Ah, Big Mistake. I have always associated Margaret Thatcher as leading the Conservative Party that swept into power like a new broom and ended the blighted Wilson/Callaghan loony left rule of flying and secondary pickets, strikes of both public and private sector workers, the three-day week, high interest rates and rampant inflation and the closed shop. So you're saying that Thatcher was actually a far left-wing politician and not a Conservative at all .... okay. Whatever.

Slur? What slur?

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the third member of the troika being the Tsar

Wheres your smoking gun evidence for this? Pure specualtion Im equally sure if Hilary had stood and won you would have been blathering on about his dad another man of principle

Ah yes you trashed him earlier if I remember

You are the biggest "Corbyn follower " Ive met

I havnt forgotten the loony right that followed either

Margaret Thatcher came to power in 1979 and I was born in 1978. Wasn't Callaghan in charge of the country in 1978? Isn't that your big mistake?

I object to being called a traveller.