Scottish Independence referendum part 2

I believe passion is driving the Scottish to leave vote, for the time being at least, reality will probably hit home once the campaigning starts in earnest again.

Probably goes without saying that the rest of the UK will bail Scotland out should it all go tits up and they go cap in hand back to Westminster.

Lets hope it doesn't come to that and they remain part of the union.

I suppose a certain number of family visits could be permitted... as with North Korea, but I would definitely want to see watch towers, machine guns and attack dogs along the border... to eliminate any of the illegal immigrants etc, welcomed into Scotland by the poisoned dwarf.

I was watching David Davies this morning appearing in front of the Brexit Select Committee and to me at least appears to be rising to the occasion as far as leading the Brexit negotiations. He is level headed and seems to know what he is up against.

I'm sure that some of the points you raise regarding Scoxit will be raised in the upcoming campaign.

I do feel that the SNP could have timed it a little better, little selfish really

A very unwelcomed tanker for certain, a little selfish and inconsiderate all in the name of scoring political points.

Now there's an understatement.

Some very insulting, condescending and borderline racist comments creeping into the debate.

I've clearly explained why I have moved from a party that supports the Union to a party that wants Scotland to be free to plough our own furrow.

Accepting there will be economic challenges (but aren't there already?) I see no reason why, in the medium to long term Scotland cannot be like Norway or Sweden - two small countries with much in common with Scotland.

Westminster serves the ordinary people of these islands very poorly indeed. The "system" exists to perpetuate and support those of wealth and influence - the metrics are there to see at the click of a mouse.

I would rather remain part of the UK if there was some signs that progress towards a fairer, more socially just and cohesive society was taking place and visible. But it isn't - and worse still things are actually going in reverse.

Why would I want to live under an administration that cares not a jot for ordinary folk? Why are decent hard working families not able to rent social housing or afford to get on the housing ladder? Why is social and economic inequality in the UK just about the highest in the developed world? Why are people being expected to work to nearly 70 to collect their pension? Why do HMRC cut sweetheart deals with big corporations and wealthy individuals (naturally hiding their gelt behind a multiplicity of offshore shell companies and trusts?) Yadda yadda yadda.

The UK is failing tens of millions of its citizens. I want a better life for my kids and if Westminster won't deliver perhaps some other arrangement offers hope.

G

Sorry Gerry we have to tell it like we see it, the country is in such a mess because of too many people being too PC and bottling their political anxieties up (that's why we have Brexit), better out than in IMO

I take it you'll be voting to remain in the UK come the never ending Scottish referendum?

The interesting thing is that many of those questioning Scotland's future outside of the United Kingdom are using the same arguments that people were using to question the UK's future outside the EU. You really couldn't make it up!

At the time of the Brexit vote, many of us were asking the same question of the Leave camp. How, exactly, are they going to fill in the gaps left from EU funding for things such as science and medicine research? Living in one of the most deprived parts of the UK (and, believe me, it was the closure of the mines and the lack of Tory investment following the closure of those mines that makes it one of the most deprived parts of the UK. Nothing to do with immigration at all), we have had new dual carriageways, enterprise zones, tourist attractions all funded by the EU. Draw a 5 mile circle around my house, and I can spot about 15 projects that would not be possible without EU funding. I'm wondering if future Tory/Labour Governments would be willing to keep that level of investment going, because history tells me we will get diddly squat.

Your question is valid, but you're unlikely to get an answer. I speak from experience.

Well the UK paid £13 billion into the EU in 2015, hopefully we can spend some of the cash here in the UK after Brexit, you might be able to draw a circle around your house and see sole UK projects in the future

By the way, the figures for the money we received back from the EU for your little projects over the years are not so clear.

The UK is presently the second biggest contributor to the EU coffers, hopefully not for much longer

I hope you are not a happy "sponsored by the European Union" billboard spotter chappie.

The EU only returns a fraction of our total contributions in such schemes, along with their patronising political propoganda.

Better that our Government takes back control of the funding.

All I am saying is what I am seeing. I grew up in the 80's where unemployment was rampant in our town. Generations of men put on the scrapheap, and Mrs Thatcher chose not to invest in areas decimated by her actions. Likewise, Major, Blair, Brown - not one of those PMs visited the area.

The main road in our county was a 3 lane road that was notorious for its death toll.

EU Funding has created jobs and wealth in an area that has been ignored by successive British Governments. I have no confidence that the UK Government (for so long basing it's investments on marginal seats) will retain the investment levels we are seeing.

I wasn't seeking yet another debate on the rights or wrongs of the EU, I was merely pointing out that, as British people voted to take control of their finances (amongst other things), what is the problem if Scottish people also exercise that right?

There was a time when the sun never set on the Queen's "empire". Now, it is possibly heading towards being two countries - England and Wales.

What a condescending person you are. "Little" projects? They are not so little to the hundreds of people who are now employed having been ignored by successive Tory and Labour Governments over the years. I asked a question - will the UK Government meet those investment levels that will be lost once we leave the EU? You didn't have an answer, yet chose to respond. What another inglorious waste of time.

Control and financing of local projects should never have been handed to the EU in the first place.

Once the Government regains control of the funding, it will be once more able to support local investment in jobs and the community.

Now the Scots are a different race ?

Oh dear.

Then you have done exceptionally well from EU Objective One funding. Wales, on the other hand, was nowhere near as lucky when it became our turn for all our projects to be funded. Projects such as completing the dualling of the A40 west of Carmarthen through to the ferry port at Fishguard - a very busy section of road constantly filled with EU HGVs travelling between Ireland and the continent. This and other vital infrastructure projects qualified for Objective One funding but were not advanced by the Labour government either in Wales or nationally. However rather a lot of money suddenly appeared and paid for a new Assembly campus at Cardiff Bay. Oh and a call centre was built in Milford - it was built but has never been fitted-out and occupied and (as far as I know) has stood empty for the last ten or so years.

However Objective One - and other EU grants - are our money that is withheld from our normal contribution on Eurocrats' agreement and say-so. The £1000 spent on every Scottish man, woman and child is funded by an extra amount - of English and Welsh taxes - granted annually to Scotland. It is not granted from tax revenue sent south by the Scots.

As you remark, my question may go unanswered but it is one that Scots themselves must seek an answer from those advocating independence but I fear that their voices and concerns will be drowned-out by cybernats and other SNP activists.

In 2001, the European Union explicitly banned racism, along with many other forms of social discrimination, in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, the legal effect of which, if any, would necessarily be limited to Institutions of the European Union: "Article 21 of the charter prohibits discrimination on any ground such as race, color, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, disability, age or sexual orientation and also discrimination on the grounds of nationality."[85] (From Wiki)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8109359.stm

(Scottish judge finds Rangers supporting bigot "racist" for singing a song in which Scottish people of Irish descent should go nback to the land of there forebears.

Much legal case law for the term "racist" to be associated not just with colour, race, religion etc but also - in certain contexts - nationality also.

Glad to have cleared that up for you old chap!

Nobody is more English/British than me, and I can honestly say I have never once in my life heard any racist comments directed at the Scottish people from this side of the wall , the word "racist" is banded about too freely in my opinion.

Of course the Rangers supporters are going to sing their derogatory song but I feel deep down that its no more than the usual football rivalry coming to a head. Its similar to Opposing fans at Old Trafford chanting Munich.

Racism takes many different forms, everyone is racist in some way or another.

We are getting far too soft in this country.