Brexit and Scexit

I see that the house magazine of Brexit has already started:

I feel I should gently remind you that it is Britain's negotiating position, not that of any one individual. Further, I think it is reasonable to suppose that we won't know the full extent of our negotiating position until it is deployed in Brussels (or wherever the negotiations take place) and that might not be for a further six months.

Yes, just over 40% of our trade is within the Single Market. The other side of that coin is that over 50% is with other non-EU countries and on WTO rules. Britain's trade with the rest of the world has been growing and continues to do so whilst that with the EU is stagnant. Unless the EU places politics above pragmatism, the EU will continue to be an important trading partner: their choice.

Siemens currently employs about 15,000 in the UK and was an enthusiastic member of Project Fear. Yesterday, the company's chief executive Joe Kaeser met Theresa May at Downing Street where he said "There is no reason not to invest tomorrow, if there is a demand and a commitment from the customer. I am willing – and the company is willing to invest – further. There are more opportunities than risks for us."

The "Economist" article that I cite, above, suggests that the actual "negotiations" would start in September,and would have to be concluded within one year, in order to allow time for the ratification process, which would take six months.

Not my negotiating position. I voted Remain.

I am seeing on the news that Gibraltar is also coming into play, many issues are going to raise their head in the months ahead.

Any thoughts on the Spanish having sovereignty or even joint sovereignty is a big no no for the British people.

Here's me thinking you were a Brexiter Andrew

Although Gibralter voted about 95% to remain so that might change.

Well in the last referendum held in Gibraltar a few years back asking whether they wanted to remain part of the UK or Spain, it was 99% to stay with the UK.

I doubt they will have shifted their position just over Brexit.

Yeah but that would be before UK voters decided to stuff them so things might have changed.

Maybe the EU 'associate citizenship' which is being considered for UK citizens who want it would solve the issue.

I doubt very much people will have changed their minds, they are as British as I am, they are more than happy the way things are and do not want to be part of Spain.

I hope it doesn't become a big issue in the negotiations but I fear it will.

Gibraltar is just one of the issues blithely ignored by the Brexit camp.

Norn Iron is a rather bigger one.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39453535

The screw up over Gibraltar is ENTIRELY the fault of the Brexit gang.

Not Spain's fault.

Not Gibraltar's fault.

Not the fault of the decent people, who voted remain.

It's entirely the fault of the lying scum who are determined to wreck this country and the damn fools (feel free to choose your category) who follow them .

Wait for Argentina to kick up about the Falklands using its leverage with Italy and Spain.

You're off again Andrew, please keep calm and stop insulting us on the leave side

Your world will not end because of Brexit, cheer up old boy, have a good old sob you'll feel much better

So it's "my way or no way" as far as you're concerned?

Just like it was for your lot after you lost the '75 referendum.

As your Fuhrer put it, shortly before the last vote - "a 48/52 decision settles nothing".

If you think I am going to stand idly by whilst a bunch of lying blow hards and crypto-fascists destroy my country and my children's future, you are mistaken.

That's rich coming from someone who earlier today complained about ad hominem attacks. Andrew, if it's not ok for ad hominem attacks on those who voted Remain by the same token it's not ok for you to do the same. We have all been respectful of your opinions, however immoderately expressed, would you kindly reciprocate by not being so insulting.

Please point me to the "ad hominem" element.

My Brexiteer friend who claimed that Nick Clegg was pro-EU because of his pension was making an ad hominem argument. I have not done so. I even offered you a choice of "crook" or "fool". Because there is no good reason for supporting Brexit, so you must be one or the other.

The gang who were going to "free us" from European red tape have just decided to import the whole lot into English law whilst still pretending that they can revoke the jurisdiction of the ECJ, which is of course yet another of their lies.

As I have told you several times before, I voted for the Common Market in 1975, so I wasn't on the losing side in that referendum. As for "my Fuhrer", you are restating what at least one LibDem peer had already drawn comparisons between Hitler, the Nazis and Brexiters. It was tasteless and untrue then and nothing has changed.

As you wish

No.

It's entirely the fault of our politicians, on all sides, who almost allowed our country to be suckered into becoming a subservient state in a federal German led EU.

We were told it was a friendly trading relationship, but look where things were heading.

Take a step back, ask yourself, honestly, if the vote had been "Remain" would it be the status quo? No!

The evil ratchet of the EU would continue to tighten daily, taking over control of more aspects of our lives.

A power grab facilitated by rigged committee meetings, indoctrination, and lies, rather than by democracy.

Is that really what you want Andrew?